That man Dawkins

Why does it matter whether there is a God or not?

What difference does it make?

That's a serious question.

I agree MiceElf that Ship of Fools is amusing, intelligent, in fact a good read. I particularly like the secret worshipper thing where someone goes off undercover to a particular church and then rates the quality of the sermon etc.

I used to log on to S of F some years ago and then lapsed but now I've started again.

About the nature of the non-god? I know there are different scientific views about the origins of life but they rarely give rise to murders, bombings, etc. We leave that to believers.

greatnan

Funny, but I was just wondering earlier today whether there are splinter atheist groups. What would the splinters be splintering off about?

When I lived in Mold, North Wales, I commented to a neighbour that the Welsh must be very religious because there were so many chapels. He laughed, and said 'No, we are just awkward sods - somebody is building a chapel and then he falls out with somebody else about the colour of the walls so he goes and starts another one somewhere else'.

I am glad atheism is so simple - we all agree there are no gods (well, some might still want to say 'probably', but not me).

Like the splinter freedom groups in Life of Brian.

feetle

Reminds me of Emo Phillips:

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

Greatnan if you believe in the universal church, as I do, every evidence of fracture is depressing. It's even more depressing when it's inside the same denomination. It's very good that Christian students should find a church where they will feel loved and supported; it's very sad that they can't walk into any church and feel the same. And this splintering applies to all the religions I know anything about. A Jewish friend joked about the fact that in any Jewish community one of the shuls will be the one "we" don't go to. A Welsh Methodist friend had made exactly the same joke about the chapels in the town where he lived, some years ago. And as the attacks criticisms of religion by secularists increase, the worse the splintering seems to get. What we need is unity. On the other hand, there is lots of evidence of different religions working more closely together, at least in the UK. Perhaps I should just leave it to the Holy Spirit.

The person who first made me wonder about the universal wrongness of abortion (as we had been taught) was a Catholic nun. She said she could imagine cases where it was justified.

I was taught by nuns and we had another order to do the domestic chores. The academic nuns were, on the whole, a po-faced bunch, but the others were very jolly. They used to organise slides on the playground for us in the Winter.
In primary school, we had one lovely nun who showed us great warmth, but she was moved on because she was allowing herself to 'love children more than god'.

I met an R.C. nun on a training placement many years ago. She was quite devout, but had a brilliant sense of the funny side of life and we spent a lot of time laughing till the tears ran at all sorts of silly things. She certainly changed a few of my perceptions about nuns.

Why do you have mixed feelings, Lilygran? Sounds like a good idea.

Granjura I couldn't agree more! I must admit to having moved churches once even though I was living in the same town, but as I've got older I've come to the conclusion that though I prefer a particular kind of worship (bells and smells in my case) it really doesn't matter. The university chaplaincy here offers both a guide book and a guided tour of churches for freshers so they can find a church they feel at home in. Mixed feelings about that!

Believe it or not, I had a very dear teacher friend who was a born-again Christian. She didn't push her religion and I didn't push my atheism. She was one of the kindest people I have ever met - I think her sweet personality probably pre-dated her conversion by Billy Graham.
I have never doubted that there are very many sincere believers, in all kinds of religion, who are very good people. Ditto atheists.

When I was a student, some of the funniest (and most ribald) people I knew were Church of Scotland trainee ministers. Extremists never have a sense of humour.

Always was surprised, ever since I was a child, that people would turn to or away, from religion, because of the personality or behaviour of a vicar or priest.
And where I lived in the UK, it was like musical chairs - people travelling from village to village to attend another Church with a vicar they preferred. Our local chap was very much against the ordination of women - so he attracted a like-minded crowd- whilst the locals who felt differently travelled to another village who had a vicar who was very much pro-women.

My lad teaches Study of Religion at a local Catholic high school, and has invited all sorts of religious leaders to talk to his class. They liked the Rabbi best, and the Imam least, because the rabbi had a great sense of humour and really understood how to give an interesting talk. I suspect the Imam was a bit defensive, but perhaps it was just luck of the draw - another would probably have been good. They liked the Greek Orthodox too.

I agree, feetlebaum - I thought he came over as very woolly-minded and the scientists really wiped the floor with him!

I wonder about Sachs... Chief Rabbis are generally less... daft.

I also like to sing Jerusalem - and yet, if you think of the words, it is a very scary, nationalist/ fundamentalist song indeed (:

Not really.

Well, it is religious and I can sing it, so that makes it a hymn for me. I think many hymns began life as poems and then somebody set them to music. Does it matter

Blood and Fire - Sally Army motto. Is Jerusalem a hymn? This was discussed on a previous thread but I don't remember which. Just asking..........

I was singing 'Jerusalem' this morning (I often sing hymns when I like the tunes) and I began to wonder about militant Christianity. What was the the sword going to be used for, I wonder? Then we have the Salvation Army, and Onward Christian Soldiers - all very militiaristic.
Christianity was imposed throughout the world very much in the way attempts are being made to impose Islam,by violence, with the odd bribe (we'll build you a school/hospital if you embrace Christianity).
I don't think most dictators have persecuted people for their religion, but for their opposition to their rule and political beliefs. Stalin happened to be an atheist - Hitler wasn't (although JW's were very badly treated).