The main tenet of Christian doctrine?

Marthanne - do you no think that the people who carry out acts of kindness would still do it even if they lost their faith? It seems rather arrogant to suggest that only Christians are capable of generosity. And surely the murders in Northern Ireland (and many other places) are committed because of religious differences?

Greatnan that isn't what Marthanne said - she said some churches do a lot of good in areas neglected by the state. Hardly an arrogant obseration.

my 'v' key is sticking, sorry! observation

Sel agree with you. Marthanne made no such assertion and it is not fair to suggest she did.

Ah, Sel and Movedalot - a Happy New Year to both of you.
I linked Marthanne's assertion that it would be a disaster if Britain turned its back on Christianity (has it not already done so, statistically?) with her assertion that many churches did good works which the state did not and it appeared to me that there was a suggestion there that good works would stop if not carried out by churches.
Marthanne - I apologise if I misinterpreted your remarks. We Humanists/atheists do get rather sensitive about anything which seems to imply that only the religious in society carry out good works.

Just tried to pm Jingle. Not known! Has she gone again?
I hope not.

Did you pm her as Jingle or as Jo5?

I think that last census showed that the majority in the UK still called themselves Christians but that the number was down on the previous one.

Happy 2013 to you too GN

JO5!

She was here last night, but may have taken umbrage...see the GREATNAN thread.

That's what's worrying me!

She'll be back - I hope!

Nothing I said this time! In fact, jingle has been very helpful to me with my new tablet.

Tried to pm jingl as JO5 but it was refused....oh dear!

She'll come round after a short spell to cool off.

You don't need a God to be good, but so much of the concepts of love, respect, and caring for others that are now instilled into the culture, legislation, philosophies and institutions of the UK have been shaped by the doctrines of Christianity which have been in Britain for 1400 yrs.

The importance of these religious doctrines cannot be ignored. They have not always been well managed, but they have still been a major force in shaping the tolerant caring society we have.

Anti slavery movements, prison reformers, all the early child care pioneers, rescuing the Victorian era street children were from Christian organisations. I doubt if we would have achieved the caring and tolerant society we have today without these doctrines.

Some clever philosopher had to think out these moral questions and formulate the ideas into how to build a good society. To whom you attribute these ideas, whether it was a divine being or just a good and clever man is up to you. I am very glad someone did.

I willingly accept that the Christian church in Britain has often been a benign influence, but I still think that the attitudes towards homosexuals and women which still exist are very harmful. Of course, this applies to most of the major world religions.
I think mankind, along with many other species, has evolved to be co-operative and altruistic because that is the best survival factor and this would have happened irrespective of religious belief.
And even if the various religions had been 100% benign, I still would not believe in any supernatural being!

Most religions started off as blueprints for a communal life, and evolved into worship of those who standardised the blueprint into tablets of stone (real stone or virtual)

When your nest is on a chosen twig you fly straight to it, you don't start at the root and follow all the choices necessary to navigate to your own place. Looking backwards from their twig, believers could see that their blueprint was good, but not that it could have been reached along other branches, without their specific religion - or any religion.

Oh, I do like that, Elegran

Just so, Elegran. The Ten Commandments are a code of conduct for life in a settled community. It suited Moses (or whoever) to attribute them to his God, for a bit of extra authority.

Moses must have been a bit of a stonemason, to chip all that into a couple of slabs of stone, but as almost no-one else could read, it would not need to be all that elaborate. He was clearly an accomplished leader, keeping control over his motley flock of emigrants as they trekked to the land of milk and honey, and educated enough to mix with Pharoahs and administrators.

He was quite capable of visualising the rules by which a settled community must live, and the superstitions which would ensure that they kept those rules, and the way he dealt with the Golden Calf incident demonstrated that he would brook no nonsense.

Yes, I agree that the 10 commandments are common sense rules to create a well-functioning and safe society. A good leader back in those days would have to include a bit of religion, such as a command by a god, to be taken seriously.

The concept of one god makes sense too - it should have prevented tribal wars between followers of different gods.

That bit didn't work out though, did it?

I'm sorry but I keep thinking of my favourite Mike Harding joke about Moses and tablets . But I do agree; I've always thought that if everyone lived by the ten commandments the world would be a wonderful place; makes total sense. It was mentioned once to me that one problem with Christianity was that it wasn't a 'glamorous' religion; just based on sense and simplicity. I've always said that, although I'm not a Christian as such I do try to live my life by Christian principles.

Perhaps all the extras and bells and whistles were an attempt to make it more glamorous and monumental ?

To lower the tone for a moment, did you mean the joke about Moses taking two tablets and going out into the wilderness, Crimson ?

They were bloody good tablets though - seeing supernatural burning bushes, hearing voices: magic mushrooms had nothing on them!!