The one book of theology atheists should read

In a way thatbags. Which is why the book recommended by Lilygran is so worth reading. It doesn't attempt to be polemical or use simplistic language to promote a particular POV but examines ideas in an historical and cultural context. Impossible to summarise, but those with open minds and a bit of time will find it of great interest.

@annodomini - "It has been noticed that maths and music often go together."

Not always! I was a professional musician for twenty five years, and never got beyond simple arithmetic - frequently getting that wrong too.

It has led to a deeper understanding of how the universe works already, insofar as we can understand it. Theology is too human-centred for that. Which is not to say theology is useless. Is it not a kind of philosophy?

It has been noticed that maths and music often go together. Both are based on patterns. It also occurs to me that mathematics is more likely to lead to an explanation of the mysteries of the universe than theology ever has been or is likely to be.

But the philosophical question as to whether maths, that is the concepts, not the useful computation, would exist if there were no humans to hold it in their minds is a fascinating one. I think Plato was the chap who began the debate.

It would even impress gods, were there any.

Maths is definitely a good ship.

This is interesting though, from Old English: ORIGIN: OE weorthscipe, from weorth, wurth worth, and sfx -scipe -ship

i can cope with that

Wurthship away, folks.

I see. I don't like that usage because of its religious connotations.

One of the definitions of worship is:

'Great admiration or devotion for' ...

Example: X's sons worship their mother. Or: she worships that grandson of hers

It's another use of the word, commonly used to express the concept of great love and devotion.

If people admire other arts, such as painting or sculpture, you don't say they worship it. Apply the same standard to mathematics.

No worship.

Admiration of mathematical phenomena is not worship.

I hope this is clear now to those who weren't paying attention before.

Please do not use religious language inappropriately. It really grates.

As you were. Just didn't want people getting wrong ideas stuck in their heads.

How can this be, a thread about religion and spirituality morphing into a thread worshipping the joy of mathematics. The subjects will always be linked in my mind now.
I love tile patterns, and patchwork quilts. I've had a go at quilting, and was so impressed that the two women who led our quilting sessions were both mathematicians.
Visiting Istanbul and Tunisia was made even more interesting by the tile patterns that are everywhere. HaveI read that the Muslim world led in the field of mathematics?

I love arithmetic!

Exactly bags and to realise that 'arithmetic' is only one small area of maths.

Scaffolders use Pythagorean theorem every day without knowing it.

Yes, exactly, elegran. One doesn't have to be good with numbers to see the mathematics, the patterns, of everyday things. Maths is about pattern recognition. The clever sods can write it all (or some of it anyroad) down in numerals and symbols. The rest of us just enjoy the 'feel' and the patterns of maths. You can find maths in a hell of a lot of things if you observe carefully.

Great fun!

When I do a talk about temari-making, I call it "Mathematically pretty, and pretty mathematical, old socks."

I can't play bridge so I don't know. someone else who can might answer that.

All the things you mention are maths in a "computation" sense, pattern making is more a visual thing. I was always better at geometry where you have to "see" it (including 3D geometry, which a lot of my classmates found terminally confusing) than I was at algebra, which involved remembering all kinds of formulae and where to use each of them.

Patchwork designs use tiling patterns to repeat shapes to fill a space pleasingly.

No, I was not a maths teacher, I am glad to say.

Elegran, were you a maths teacher? You're opening up a new world for me. Up till now, I thought of weighing baking measures, measuring curtains, knitting patterns etc as something I could just do. Maybe there is more I could achieve. Just remembered, I'm not bad at Bridge, does that count.

The temari balls that thatbags makes use geometric repeating patterns, but she has no photos of them in her profile, however here are some.

BTW That example leads you into thinking about geometry, and repeat tiling patterns. If you have ever had to buy different coloured lino tiles to make a pattern on a kitchen or bathroom floor, you will have messed about with coloured pencils and many sheets of paper, drawing interlinking patterns using basic shapes to fill a space.

In fact, one approach to mathematics is via wondering how the patterns come to be the way they are.

Take the wonderful hexagonal cells made by bees to store honey and put the grubs to bed in. No, the bees don't have built-in rulers and set-squares in their brains to make them that perfect shape.

If you overdo the washing-up liquid and get a mass of bubbles (basically round balls of air held in flexible skins of soapy water) on top, get up close and take a look. Each bubble is forced to adjust to those around squeezing it, and most of them will be hexagons.

Bees buiding cells close together on a flat surface have to adjust the shape to get as many as possible into the space. In a wild honeycomb, they cover whatever surface is naturally there, and while most are hexagonal, there are irregular ones too , to fit irregular spaces.

In a man-made hive, the owner has thoughtfully provided them with a series of flat sheets of wax, hung just the right distance apart for them to build tightly packed cells in a neat honeycomb pattern, and still have headroom (bee-space) to move over the top to feed the grubs and fill the honey cells. Natural behaviour to store as much as possible in the space available.

Oh Elegran, what a positive comment - I feel cheered already, thanks.

But, just as you can enjoy art without knowing which end of a paintbrush to dip into the paint, it is still possible with no mathematical ability at all to appreciate the patterns that are created by the entirely unconscious effect of mathematical principles, like the arrangements of seeds or petals in my link above.