The one book of theology atheists should read

I'm ashamed to confess, that I find anything other than basic maths to be as mystifying as well, myths, legends and faith. My own faith is possibly as much of a confusion as my understanding of higher maths. I 'must try harder'.

While I am happy that theology plays no part in my life, I am very sad that Mathematics is a closed book to me.

Someone said maths is "made up" like philosphy, aka. Some of us beg to disagree about that. That's all.

two, even

Nobody is worshipping maths, jings, just pointing out a fact or too. Speaking for myself only, I don't think I'm capable of worshipping anything.

Jing,just try imagining where you'ld be without maths.

Maths is wonderful but arithmetic can be tedious. IMHO.

What has god to do with maths? Am I missing something

The fact that it is fact makes it boring. You can't go anywhere with it.

I don't get this maths-worship. It's just numbers! Adding up, taking away etc etc. Sometimes on a complicated scale. But still just numbers. Can someone explain what's so lovely about it?

Point taken

Does anyone else remember 'Honest to God' by Bishop John Robinson? It was fashionable while I was a student over 50 years ago. I was a stalwart of the liberal Student Christian Movement and found the 'Secular Theology' of Robinson, William Barclay and the American Harvey Cox very agreeable to my way of thinking. The logical progression for me was to reject belief in a supernatural being while embracing the Christian ethic which is why I now call myself a Humanist.

Maths doesn't need a point, petallus.

Maths is a given - it is fact.

Philosophy and theology are attempts by human beings to make sense of our situation. They are valid areas of study, but not fact.

I'll read this later as just off out, but had to comment that Greatnan would have been poised over her keyboard, sleeves rolled up, anticipating a thoroughly good debate with her pals - some atheists, some believers. Just the sort of article she would seek out and digest.

If the maths did not exist, the universe would not exist either.

Not the written-down kind of maths computations which you have to learn at school,( which was evolved by generations of mathematicians who had more in their heads than they coulod manipulate or remember) but the natural kind which underpins the patterns in the structure of a crystal or an atom or molecule, the path of a planet, the growth of a seed into a plant.

Take a good look at the face of a sunflower. fibonnaci This is the result of natural maths, not a human invention.

@Lilygran - Philosophy is a big disappointment! Much of it seems to come down to word-play...

Many wonderful things would not exist without humanity.

As for those things which exist independently from humanity, well, what is the point of maths if there is no-one to perceive it?

Incidentally, I wish I knew more about maths (only did the basics at school). I have heard it described as beautiful by aficionados.

Maths isn't made up. It is discovered. It exists without humanity. I'm not sure the same can be said of theology.

I shall declare myself as an agnostic before commenting - that is to say, I do not know the answers to the big questions, and firmly believe that no-one else knows either; some people have beliefs, but, as my local vicar agrees, no-one knows.

First of all, I do take the point made in the article, that those atheists of an evangelical bent do not seem to ask the basic questions of their believer fellows on which to base their attacks. It might be better of they stuck to setting out the facts as they see them, if they do not feel ready to ask those questions.

However, I have posed the question to many believers as to what/who god is to them and all the answer are different - which bears out my own belief that god is a human construct - and that is not intended as a criticism.

I also think that the sort of sophisticated theism that is implied in the article is not necessarily the norm - we have only got to look at what is happening with the fundamentalist movement in America and the downtrodden and huge Catholic families in poor areas of S America and elsewhere to see that the "superhero" image of god is alive and well.

Thanks lilygran. I've just downloaded a sample on to my Kindle.

Although I've been an atheist for many years, I am interested in theology.

I recently bought a Christian friend a book I found in Oxfam and he thought it was brilliant and gave a copy to his son. Not sure if it is still in print. He got his second hand.

Book title: The religious case against belief.
Author: James P. Carse.

Critic: 'Carse is out to rescue religion from both religious fundamentalist and atheists'

thanks Lilygran

Like philosophy. And Maths.

What is the point of arguing about the nature of something that doesn't seem to exist?
Theology is just made up by old men in ivory towers...

Sorry! www.theguardian.com/news/oliver-burkeman-s-blog/2014/jan/14/the-theology-book-atheists-should-read