The resurrection

James, the brother of Jesus, was thought to be a strict vegetarian by Josephus. Now there's another thought.

my jury is still out.

From research Dr. Habermas has been able to show that of the 3,400 works studied, the majority of writers accept 12 events around this subject as historical fact:Habermas has reduced this list to just the top five facts in an approach he calls the minimal facts approach. Each of these minimal facts must meet two criteria: (1) the data are strongly evidenced, and (2) the data are granted by virtually all scholars on the subject, even the skeptical ones. The minimal facts are:
1. Jesus died by crucifixion. Since 1975, Resurrection expert Dr. Gary Habermas has catalogued over 3,400 academic works on the fate of Jesus, from conservative, critical, and skeptical scholars in English, German, and French.
2. The tomb was empty
3. His disciples believed that He rose and appeared to them.
4. The church persecutor Paul was suddenly changed.
5. The skeptic James, brother of Jesus, was suddenly changed.

The empty tomb was "too notorious to be denied." Paul Althaus states that the resurrection could not have been maintained in Jerusalem for a single day, for a single hour, if the emptiness of the tomb had not been established as a fact for all concerned."
Historical Credibility Criteria
1. Multiple, independent sources of testimony.
2. Early testimony.
3. Eyewitness testimony.
4. Enemy testimony.
5. Embarrassing testimony.
What is the Best Explanation?
1. Jesus rose from the dead!
1 Corinthians states that Jesus appeared to the 12 and I know Corinthians was written before Mark so that is good evidence that Jesus really did appear to his disciples. -

I suppose it depends how you define brainwashing - I think an awful lot of it goes on within religions - I am not talking about grown adults who have thought through their beliefs, but about children. I feel very uncomfortable about children being taught beliefs as though they are truths; and even more uncomfortable about faith schools of all denominations.

feetlebaum I don't really know anything about Josephus, other than that he has popped up from time to time in my reading as a reference to the historical Jesus. I have a vague feeling that he mentioned James the brother of Jesus and John the Baptist but couldn't give you a reference. What should I read?

I agree Mishap but there seems to have been brain washing in those instances and that doesn't only happen with religious conviction.

The written word shouldn't be taken literally for a variety of reasons and the gospels were written a long time after Jesus death, (although my husband knew John Wenham, a biblical scholar who put them much earlier, and thought that Matthew might have been the first), but if there is any truth at all in the stories of the crucifixion and the early church then it's a strange about turn on the part of the disciples. I would simply like to know what really happened.

@alternativegran - the sole paragraph in Josephus is generally considered to be a scribal addition - it interrupts a narrative and is in a completely different style.

I've just listened to it. Very interesting.

I have found the Mithras talk. Will listen to it tonight .

"Something must have happened to give them such courage but wouldn't like to speculate exactly what "

It is interesting that religious convictions can overcome the fear of being tortured/killed. Look at those US sects where people commit mass suicide; and suicide bombers are a case in point. Unfortunately they cannot all be right!

Melvyn Bragg did an In Our Time episode on Mithras probably still available as a podcast.

And read all other posts before commenting . . . .

See the op!

So are you watching the series on BBC2 on a Thursday at 11.20 pm, Galen? "Bible Hunters" I did not see the first, but this Thursday's is about sayings of Jesus which were not incuded in the standard bible, which were found on a papyrus fragment in 1896.

Episode One is available on BBC IPlayer.

Mithras was born on December 25th, wasn't he? And died as a sacrifice?

If my machine worked if go back to the days of Mithras and the zarostians who have very similar stories.

At the time of the crucifixion Peter disowned Jesus, the rest of the disciples melted away leaving only the women watching at a distance yet after his death they carried on and the early church was established, (although it probably wouldn't have survived without Paul).

This isn't really normal human behaviour, especially as traditionally most suffered awful deaths. Something must have happened to give them such courage but wouldn't like to speculate exactly what without Galen's time machine.

Could you convert your scooter? Ot shouldn't take much.

I'm working on it. In between wasting spending time on gransnet, Facebook and kindle!

Elegran

I am quite certain that a man of that name existed, and was a thorn in the flesh of both the Roman authorities (fear of nationalist uprising) and the Jewish religious leaders (wanting to reform their institution). He appears to have been a charismatic and caring leader who drew followers to him, and inspired them to continue after his death.

His resurrection is less well documented. Does anyone have any blueprints for a time machine, to go back for some first-hand observations?

Thank you Galen.

I have come across Josephus, as his writing has been quoted as evidence for the historical Jesus, but none of the other sources.

Wow! I used cut and paste successfully!

Evidence from the JEWISH SOURCES:

Talmud, b. Sanhedrin 43a: On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged [or crucified]. ... Since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.

The Amoa "Ulla" (Ulla was a disciple of Youchanan and lived in Palestine at the end of the third century) adds: "And do you suppose that for (Yeshu of Nazareth - Jesus) there was any right of appeal? He was a beguiler, and the Merciful One hath said: "Thou shalt not spare neither shalt thou conceal him." It is otherwise with Yeshu, for He was near to the civil authority.

Note here that the writers of the Talmud took their job seriously. These men were Jews who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They were not Christians but they documented Christ's crucifixion.



EVIDENCE FROM ROMAN SOURCES:

Cornelius Tacitus in his Annals, xv. 44: Christus ... was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontious Pilate.

Lucian of Samosata: (Christ was) the man who was crucified in Palestine


Note here that these men were professional historians. They researched their work before publishing it. They also documented Christ's crucifixion.


Therefore, three types of witness all of whom are from the 1st or early 2nd century have been presented.


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