A view of what faith is

Thank you Lilygran, its a really good article.

For some people these transcendent moments change the whole direction of their lives, the accounts of Maurice Bucke, a reforming psychiatrist in the 19th century, and Allan Smith a physician and researcher in the 1970s are worth reading.

We are all boats in a stormy sea but with faith, we aren't helpless.

Oh yes, Galen!

feet I was not trying to be scientific, just disagreeing with creationist theories,
I perfectly understand (as much as anyone does) the evolutionary tree with its branches.
I have studied evolution and paleo archeology to a small degree and I would thoroughly disagree about the accountant in Orpington.
I thought it was generally agreed that the pinnacle is a lady living in sight of the Paps of Jura?

@Galen - "What about all the hominids, neathanderal man, Peking Man, and all the other Homo sapiens precursors?" Not precursors... speciation doesn't work like that - there is no neat queue of ever-taller, ever more upright hominids, culminating in an accountant living in Orpington as the peak of development. It's a matter of common ancestors - as homo sap. has a common ancestor with the chimpanzee, and that common ancestor had an earlier common ancestor with the gorilla...

@Soontobe - "evolution - species do adapt, but essentially stay the same."

That's shown to be wrong by the transitional forms - tiktalik for one, which was a fish on the way to becoming a reptile... Evolution happens in populations, not in individuals, over enormous numbers of generations.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844-1900)

Wise words as ever, Elegran. And timely. X

Happy Christmas everyone, whether it is as a celebration of the anniversary (perhaps at an estimated date) of a birth in a stable or a get-together of family and friends to cheer the dreariness of a dark midwinter.

To those who will be alone, you are part of the Gransnet family, so keep logging in here.

To those rushed off your feet - SIT DOWN and get someone else to do some of it.

Soontobe. surely the parable of the Lost Sheep covers anybody who has lost their faith or what you refer to as "become a non-Christian" being welcomed back? Don't see the problem there in"getting back"?
Finally, does Jesus condemn ?

Can somebody remind me where the Bible (I am presuming OT) refers to dinosaurs or the like?
I had not thought to encounter Creationism !

We are all boats in a stormy sea whether we have faith or not. That's just life and how it works.

Thank you crafting - that is the faith which my Christian friends subscribe to. We get on fine because we all regard kindness as the leading principle in life. They can cope with my unbelief! - and have not yet told me I am condemned to eternal hellfire!

It is sad when religion is divisive.

Everyone has their own opinion Crafting.

I made a mild observation, when, in support of soontobe who seemed to me to have been unfairly targeted. Hardly a 'crack'.

I can't say I keep track of what you have to say particularly, when.

I am a Christian but soontobe you have lost me. You are not the only Christian in the world but your ideas are yours alone. I believe that God loves us all whatever our faith or non faith. I also belive that everyone has a right to their opinion and their faith or lack of it.

I believe that there are many people who do good and are kind and do not believe in God but I beleive God loves us all whatever we do and will forgive those who repent who at sorry for their sins. This is my belief and is as valid as yours or anyone else's. I do not think the rest of the world will be condemned for their lack of faith nor do I think it is my place to tell anyone else how to behave or what will happen to them if they don't.

I was invited to talk by a poster on this thread, when.
And I am now keeping answers short as requested.

Lilygran, boat in a stormy sea is a good expression.

Ana if you take the time to read the thread again, you will see that no-one has said soontobe is trying to save anyone. It is what she represents and the sermonising that sends a message that non-believers are still capable of being saved or redeemed. I would say 'keep up' but I know you do like to keep track of what I and another Gransnetter have to say. Perhaps you could find someone else to have a crack at?

I think that's going rather far, feetle. Whatever faith is (have you read the article I linked in the OP?) it isn't intellectual laziness! I suspect active members of faith communities spend more time in intellectual discussion than most people outside universities - no, scrub that, than most people. It isn't like sinking into a warm bath, it's more like being out on the stormy sea in a small boat.

Thanks Ana.

Is that what posters are thinking? I didnt realise that.

I've been following this thread, and nowhere does it come across (to me) that soontobe has been trying to save or redeem anyone.

Mark Twain defined faith as "Believing what you know ain't so". Sounds reasonable... What excuse can there be for not only believing something unbelievable, but for basing a life on it? 'Faith' is intellectual laziness, an excuse not to want to know the truth.

What about all the hominids, neathanderal man, Peking Man, and all the other Homo sapiens precursors?

'Some people lose their faith but not absolutely all of it.'

Is this in your bible, soon? I can promise you that some people lose all of their faith and don't want it back. I think I'll leave it there as I have no intention of denying you your beliefs, but please do likewise. I don't want to be saved, redeemed or be born again, thanks.

I do believe that God made dinosaurs, and that they died out somewhere along the line.
The bible does mention large animals in several places.

evolution - species do adapt, but essentially stay the same.

So, Soon, how do you explain evolution and the existstance of fossils?