In the meantime, some Christians demonstrate their peaceful minds

Much of politics and much of religion is about controlling what people can and can't do so it's not surprising if the two things get mixed together.

And yet so closely entwined for so long. Look back to the war of religions in Tudor times- was that politics, or religion? And at the same time the persecution and murder and expulsion of the Hugnenots in France. What about the Spanish inquisition- was that about politics- or more about power and greed, or both.

I'm glad to see, Jings, that you separate religion and politics. That's just what we secularists are trying to do...

I don't, Jingl I lay it at the door of those who planted communities in another land and then treated the original inhabitants as ignorant bog-dwellers who were not up to the intellectual and cultural standard of the newcomers. The bog-dwellers were not totally innocent, of course, their long Celtic memories and their traditions of warfare saw to that.

But the labels for those on either side of that divide were synonymous with the religious differences of the two communities, so that being of one denomination or the other was an outward sign of their supposed political allegiance too. Without the Catholic/Protestant labels, perhaps there would have been less polarity, and more feeling of being one nation.

Elegran you can hardly lay that at the door of Christianity.

I don't know what the anti-Christians on here would do without the Northern Ireland thing.

You must be able to see that it was never a truly religious divide. It was political.

The sectarianism and politics reinforced one another. Different religions marked different communities, which had different historical roots and long memories of past conflicts.

But plenty to do with religious sectarianism.

That was an historical political divide. Nothing to do with Christianity.

Ireland? Glasgow?

And just when did the Christian religion (in our time) do that in this country? Christian go about their worship, and daily lives, peaceably. Even when their Sabbath was taken back by the money-making sector of society.

Fervent followers of any religion, sect or denomination always believe they are right and everyone else is wrong.

It turns neighbour against neighbour, splits families and causes war.

What should be something beautiful and uplifting (and quite often is) turns into something destructive.

Things can be done by people calling themselves christians, when they are not acting in a christian way.
Not only do they act bad, but they put people off christianity. And that can go down through generations too.

Because christianity teaches love. Love your neighbour as yourself. Whatever nationality, religion, whether they are your enemy, whatever and whoever.
I agree that it can take time and patience and a lot of other things to do this. It does not necessarily come naturally.
But it is well worth doing and trying.

Eloethan- again, your post mirrors what I'd like to say. Some of us learnt very very young that religions is divisive, not uniting. If you live in a close-knit community where only one religion, or close denominations, co-exist- it may be difficult to see this. Of course we are adults and can now choose, which religion or none. However, with some religions/denominations even nowadays it can be very difficult- as it will bean ostracization from the family and community. Imagine becoming, say, a Muslim convert in a Utah community of Mormons, or a Plains community of Amish, or a Christian convert in a community in Saudi Arabia? Or even amon Christians, a Protestant in a small Rep of Ireland community, or a CAtholic in the North in an Ulser Unionist community!

And as said, it is not that long ago, even when I was young, that Catholics and Protestants here were at 'war'- and living totally separate lives, with their own choir, brass band, clubs and the like- and people hardly talking to each other. I lived this, when I was young, a divorced protestant mother, and a catholic father- ostracised by both families and communities. I am so grateful for that, acutally, it makes you think and re-assess what it is all about, and makes you strong and stand on your own 2 feet- but comforting it is not. Same for DH's family but only x 1000 in Apartheid South Africa. Apartheid was dreamed up by Christians, for Christians, the Dutch Reformed Church and the Huguenots protestants, btw. Nasty bunch!

I do not understand religious tolerance, really, as said before. I you absolutely and totally without doubt, believe that your God and only your God will lead to salvation and eternal life- how can you be tolerant of other religions- will presumably, by inference, will not? Religious communities are so comforting and embracing- as long as you belong to them or are potential recruits- and exclusive of the rest.

eloethan is correct. Dawkins does criticise all religions and many religious ideas. The video is a miniscule bit of stuff out of all the stuff he does, which happens to focus on Christians slagging him off. Those who think he only criticises Christianity are speaking from ignorance of RD's work. I suggest they go and read some of his books, or check out the religion page of the Richard Dawkins Foundation for a more rounded view.

I miss our tropical fish tank.

I think Dawkins applies his argument to all religions, not just Christianity.

My feeling is that probably all religions are by their nature divisive, and given that there are enough economic, political and cultural issues to create division, it's unfortunate that different religious beliefs and practices add an extra layer of complication to the situation. It also seems to me that religious people tend to see their own religion as the only true one and - sometimes quite obviously - set themselves apart from all those that have different beliefs.

I imagine that not everybody who believes in some sort of "god" necessarily belongs to a particular religion. Thinking about life and death can be frightening and it's maybe natural that people search for something/someone who might actually be "in charge".

I knew Jesus was a Jew Well, of course you did, sorry if it sounded patronising!!

It was more a statement than a reply to you, petallus

re christian denominations. Sometimes it is only really style of worship that is different.
So if you were to choose one, choose one that suits you best.

But it is the bible that is key. Not the denomination.
And it is your and your husbands personal choice, not your parents or grandparents is it not?

When my kids all fled the nest, I told them to try a variety of churches, not just mine.
They are their own person and it is up to them which denomination they find best.
1 didnt choose the same as me. And another one doesnt sometimes. Good. Fine. No problem. They are not me.

To clarify, the God that Christians believe in, the one which I was taught to believe in, is the one I don't believe in.

I knew Jesus was a Jew

petallus, some of us come from incredibly complicated religious history via our familes- so this does not really hold for me and DH, for instance. Our parents come from 4 different religious traditions- three very different Christian denominations which were at 'war' until not long ago, and another totally different religion. So which one were we 'supposed' to be, if we did follow one?

I don't see God as Christian (if he/she exists).

Jesus wasn't Christian, he was a Jew.

Followers of Jesus are Christians.

You have raised an interesting question POGS.

I wonder if one's atheism has to be related to the religion one would have followed if one hadn't been an atheist

I am a non-believer but I've always considered the God I don't believe in to be the Christian one. Allah doesn't seem all that relevant to my non belief.

feetle

That was certainly not my intention!

I have no particular beef with what is being said by either those who have a religious faith nor those who are atheist. I repeat, both sides are right and nobody should feel they have to justify their belief nor justify why they hold no belief.

I am genuinely wondering why other faiths who believe in God are not being challenged nor being considered as the scribers of the tweets Dawkins has read out on his video., why is it only those who hold a Christian faith that would disagree with him. To me that is an honest question, to you I am calling it 'victimisation of Christians'. There would be little point getting into any heated debate as we both see my post in different ways.