Stephen Fry on meeting God ...

It is not a requirement. It is a wish.
And the world very much listens. Hence people who fall by the wayside, and those who do not become christians.

If you call me a fundamentalist, do you think that Jesus and God are too?

Dictionary definition of fundamentalism: "A form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture:"

Indeed confusedbeetle - the problem is that fundamentalist believers are not able to listen. They are required to toe the line and not listen to the "evil" ideas of others. It is really quite scary.

Great post confusedbeetle

This has been an amazing and interesting discussion. It is clear, that for some, religion or faith is a support and a driving force to live a good life. It is possible to lead a good a moral life without any religion, and be happy that our time is limited, make the most of it and be the best person you can be. Not for any hope of an afterlife, but for joy and happiness and trying to bring some to others. Throughout my life I have met good people with a faith, and bad people with a faith. And some wicked people with or without.
When people suffer it should not be thought of as a test. Historically poor people have been kept down and oppressed in the name of religion, while others have got rich and powerful in the name of religion.And also by witholding of education and reading.The churches had the knowledge and the power to control society. It is not the religion that is the problem, it is the way human beings interpret it for their own ends. When faith starts to the thought of as "right" instead of simply a personal view, we get intolerance and bigotry. There is no right, we make our own story, let our children thrive and grow in their own story, not the one we happen to subscribe to. Oh and yes, Stephen Fry could probably have chosen a more tolerant honeymoon venue. As Dave Allen would say "May your God go with you"
Maybe the way forward is not to tell people what we do or don't believe, but to listen to them.

Mishap - it was part of an annual festival in my neck of the London woods which is aimed at stimulating discussion. I don't think the talk was recorded but will ask.

Trisher from what I can make out, the man who started The Sunday Assembly based it on "the church model" because it works and he liked everything about it but doesn't believe in God. So I don't think other than that he calls it a church it has anything tO do with religion.

Sorry for brevity am tapping away ony phone!

I think you probably are one soon! You are someone who takes your religious book literally in spite of its contradictions and assertions which have been proved to be unfounded. I think that qualifies as fundamentalism.

Those who look at the spirit of their religious texts and interpret it with their rational brain as well as their feeling brain are, to my mind, not fundamentalists.

Where is the chattering merrily going on? I think there are now christians everywhere though there could be a piece of the earth missed.
Missionaries still very much exist. They have even been known to come to the UK.

I wouldnt dream of saying that those of different faiths are necessarily not going to Heaven. That is in no way my call.

Who are the fundamentalists you speak of specifically, Mishap?

trisher. Heaven.
There are different mansions in Heaven.
And different layers in Hell.
So it matters in that regard. But none of that matters much to most people.

When someone becomes a christian, or is trying to become one, they do give up a lot in some regards sometimes.
There is not just the easier route of good works alone.

But these people of different faiths are going to hell apparently, according to your thinking soon - is it not remiss that christians are not in there telling them this rather than chattering merrily?

"Compromise and understanding" are not virtues available to fundamentalists by definition.

Honeymooning in an anti-gay country does seem to have been a strange decision for SF and his husband!

Have you read it? It is worth a read.

There is another thread on here, a blog, which is talking about compromise and understanding between people of different faiths in this country. Different faiths are living quite happily together in most towns and cities in this country, right now.

OK so if I don't lead a good life, I do all sorts of horrible and nasty things but when I am very old and can't do much I suddenly find god and have faith so I die believing in god and heaven, where am I going? If it's heaven why bother doing good anyway?
On the other hand if I do loads of good things lead an honourable and self sacrificing life but don't believe in god I'm going to hell???!!!!
Its totally stupid!!!

Stephen Fry is a very clever man who sometimes behaves like a wally. He has just come back from honeymoon but the newlywed chose to go to a country where same sex marriage is not recognised and people are hostile to homosexuality. His husband has reported that they were made to feel very uncomfortable and this spoiled the trip. Other cultures have funny attitudes, don't they?

Fundamentalist views leave no room for compromise; without compromise and understanding between people of different faiths and none, then the world degenerates into chaos. We are watching it happen now.

Adam's rib yes. World created in 7 days, yes.
Evolution - depends exactly what you mean by that. I think that animals are always evolving. And I think that dinosaurs exist as the bible talks about large, long ago animals.

I had to look up the word metaphor. No I dont think things are metaphors.

How are people like me threats to peace and harmony in the world, when that is what we want? What is it exactly, that you think that I am doing? [I appreciate that I am a person on the internet like everyone else here, so you dont know me, just as I dont know you].

I repeat - "even the bits that contradict each other?"

Adam's rib?

World created in 7 days?

No evolution?

Is none of it metaphor?

I have to be honest here soon and say that it is people of such fundamentalist views about religion who are the real threat to peace and harmony in the world.

I take the whole thing as it is, yes.

"Hell has everything to do with God." - hence my agnosticism.

The camel through the eye of a needle is a mistranslation - it is a rope.

Do you believe everything in the bible soon? - even the bits that contradict each other?

Hell has everything to do with God.

There are very few people who cannot thread that camel through the eye of a needle.
Why do you think that there are a large number Elegran?

Post 12.05pm There were people who didnt love their fellow-man as well, but I get your point.

Before Christianity, there were people who were good. They were good and did good works because they loved their fellow-man.

They loved their brothers and sisters because they were brothers and sisters (even if unrelated "brothers and sisters") not because their father would punish them if they did not.

Abu ben Adhem

Hell has nothing to do with religion, or whether someone is "saved" from it by believing in this, that or the other.

Hell is what is inside us when we know what we have done and the effect it has had, and regret it bitterly, but can't possibly change it. Professing a faith that promises to clean that away is one way of dealing with it. It is not the only way, and promulgating the idea that there is no other route is cruelty to those who cannot thread that camel through the eye of a needle - and if they are sensitive souls, it condemns them to feeling imperfect and ruined because of their inability.

Who is saying we don't want to keep the good works? - that is precisely what we do want to keep.

Why even keep the good works if you dont want to?

The church is up for losing God upthread. A goodworks community centre. So lose God, lose everything.

Meanwhile, others carry on being christians. It never stops.

Same as the Koran I guess - interpreted in the context of the culture all the way to being unrecognisable - reference ISIS