Stephen Fry on meeting God ...

I was brought up to accept all the traditional Christian beliefs, which I did, until recently. Earlier last year I began to explore non-theism, or atheism, and found I was very much in tune with what I found. Giving up my belief in the after-life was the most difficult, and I acknowledged the thought that if anything happened to any of my children, I would have to cling on to a belief that I would see them again, as the alternative would be unbearable.

At the time, I had no reason whatsoever to believe that this might be a possibility. My children were grown, active and healthy.

My daughter died three weeks ago of an auto-immune disease that attacked all her vital organs.

Rationally, I know there is no connection between her death and my struggle with belief. But if it's a coincidence, it's a very painful one.

Interesting river i'm not a fan of SF either.

Lilygran I'm not a fan of SF - find him a smug git to be honest but I thought he eloquently expressed what a lot of people like me think.

He was asked a question about the Pearly Gates and what he would say to God if he met him.

To be fair to non-believers you have to give us a chance to say what we feel without being accused of giving offence. Believers get more than their fair share of air-time and opportunities to influence all our daily lives.

Constituency?? Have I missed something?

I'm not criticising him for saying what he did. That's what he believes and he knows his constituency. I am criticising him for complaining about all the evil things in the world and blaming something he doesn't even believe in when, like all of us, he can do something towards overcoming the evils. Put the blame where it belongs, Stephen! And he's in a position to do more than most. But he prefers to play the buffoon to a mainly over-indulgent audience.

soon - I am truly amazed that as a practising christian it has taken until now for you to think about the question of evil in the world.

And yes, I do think that dividing people into their faiths and beliefs or non-belief is wholly unacceptable - we are simply fellow human beings. As long as people think in terms of religious or other divisions, slaughter in one form or another will continue.

Jings - I too subscribe to the idea that there are forces for good and forces for evil in the world and that we need to do our best to be on the side of the good. I just do not label them as god or devil, nor impose doctrines on them.

No-one understands why there is illness and evil in the world - no-one ever has. Various religions have their own myths and stories to try and explain this, just as they do to explain the start of the world/universe. But they are just that - human attempts to make sense of the world; not the words of a supreme being.

Someone who makes poo and willy jokes does not mean they are incapable of giving an intellegent honest answer which Stephen Fry eloquently did when that question was put to him.

"I think what we think of as God is the forces for good in the world. The "devil" is the forces for evil. Up to the human race who wins out in the end."

Not simplistic at all, Jings That is the deepest thought on the thread (possibly the deepest thought on all the threads on religion)

Someone who wants to bow down and worship what they call "God" and renounce what they call "the Devil" is doing exactly the same as someone who supports the forces of good and opposes the forces of evil.

There is no need to "convert" those who do not believe that there is no "God" in the religious sense, and no need to frighten people into believing so with tales of eternity in Hell.

Stephen Fry is being criticised for answering a question that was asked of him. What was he supposed to do - say "I'm not prepared to talk about that"? Had I been asked that question, I would have answered in a similar way to Fry - not to be deliberately contentious but to be honest about what I think.

I don't see why a person should be asked leading questions about their personal beliefs if an honest answer is seen as distasteful or some sort of deliberate provocation. In fact, it was the interviewer who being provocative.

I wasn't thinking of SF disagreeing with my views when I said he preferred to be a clown. I was thinking of his propensity for poo and willy jokes. What a waste of talent!

soon feel free to PM me if you wish...

I think what we think of as God is the forces for good in the world. The "devil" is the forces for evil. Up to the human race who wins out in the end.

That is ridiculously simplistic, but it does me ok.

Why is that hard to believe? It is increasing in mainly Thirld World countries I understand, of course.
What about the rise of Muslim fundamentalism? Is that harder or easier to believe?
I find it incredible that you have given no thought to the role played by disease in the world. How about famine? What about natural disasters?
Why do you have to "ask your minister"?? Don't you think things through for yourself or is that counter to your beliefs?
I feel this discussion could be taking place in the 17th century not the 21st!

Not on this day and age surely!

Jings as a Christian, are you not supposed to accept that the Devil exists?

(As opposed to evil practices here and there.)

Yes GillT57. And I am not the only one.
It is hard to believe sometimes, that in some countries of the world, christianity is increasing.

that was about 'the devil'

Again, not a 'being' but plenty of forces for evil in the world.

No, no sermon!
I have never written one in my life anyway!

soon thanks for asking so politely. I don't think there is much point in continuing this discussion "off-line" because nothing you say will change anything. but I'm okay with most things, including anyone who wishes to PM me. As long as it isn't a sermon . I'm definitely not in the mood for that.

I admire Stephen Fry for his honesty about his sexuality and his battle with being bi-polar and the subsequent problems such as when he just disappeared from the London stage unable to cope with it all. He was brave and open about it and by doing so, he brought discussion of mental illness out of the dark corners where it had hidden. I totally agree with his speech here about god, and find it really really difficult to read drivel from soon about the devil, sorry but do you really think there is a benevolent old man with a beard and some kind of angry bloke with a pitchfork? As to being tested, what is that all about? I find it very hard to comprehend how anyone, living in the modern world, anyone with a passing knowledge of arts, science, medicine, can really believe in some sort of sky fairy ( my DS's description)? It may be comforting, all the ritual etc., but in your heart of hearts do you honestly truly think that there is one being who controls it all?

If that is ok with you?

jings I do have a feeling that there must be some purpose and meaning to life. Hence I "test all things; and hold fast what is good" as taught to me by my grandmother.

Grannyknot, I will pm you.

Mishap, I cant see how you can say that humans are not believers or non believers. You say that you are not a christian?