There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

It gave me a giggle anyway.

Your post says ' I am not God' ?

Not at all strange Rosesarered, I have never claimed to be ,are you using the Royal 'we'

we never believed you WERE God anniebach ( strange as that may seem)???
Niggly and Joan were talking a lot of sense, as they usually do.
This thread has veered wildly off it's original topic though.

Nigglynellie, I am not God , what you say about God is your choice, accusing me of driving a poster away etc was a personal attack on a poster , I did not say one personal comment to Joan I did speak of the treatment of the aborigines , an apology from you can end this, thank you

ab, I have never commented on or about the poster. Perhaps you could point these comments, out to me. I don't believe in a loving God if that's what you mean, but then neither does the poster!!!

Then you can lead nigglynellie by not making untrue and acid tongued accusations against poster - practice what you preach yes?

No I'm not saying that at all Eloethan, in fact the exact opposite! I feel that anyone should be able to voice their opinion over any subject whatever that opinion/subject is and in return get a reasonable, thoughtful, and above all respectful answers whether in agreement or in opposition, not dictatorial criticism, argumentative, sanctimonious comments, which are just downright insulting and rude.

I think it's worth pointing out obieone

Joan has not been "driven away". She voiced some opinions that some people took issue with and therefore challenged. She objected to those opinions being expressed and therefore decided not to engage any further. What you seem to be saying nigglynellie is that the people with whom you agree should be able to say what they like, without challenge.

It wasn't just Australia that committed atrocities and subjugated whole communities of people - but we were talking about Australia because Joan brought it up.

Not sure if it is worth pointing out that the Bible says that there are two fractrions in that region who will never be at peace with one another.

Nigglynellie, voicing a criticism of any country is acceptable, an acid tongued attack on posters is not

She doesn't say a few people and this contrast between the "civilised western industrialised nations" is really unacceptable. Does she not realise that mathematics, medicine, science, and almost all the things our civilisation is built on, originated in Middle Eastern countries.

Lots of countries were awful and still are, but let's forget about them and concentrate on the one or two where we can safely vent our venom. No one's applauding anything, but it wasn't just Australia that took children, hence them being called 'Children of the Empire,' the clue is in the title!! It wasn't just Australia who treated indigenous people reprehensibly, Joan was the first to acknowledge that this happened in Australia. Don't just gun for one country and insult one of its citizens and keep silent about other far worse governments both past and present. I doubt there is a country in the world that hasn't darkness in it's past. A lot of people in Australia are doing a lot of good things, just because they choose not to shout it from the rooftops doesn't mean it isn't happening. Joan's entitled to her opinions on the Middle east, just the same as you are, just because they don't fit with yours does not exclude her from voicing them. How can there ever be a variety of conversations if only one opinion is allowed? as any deviation will be immediately stamped on and driven away!!

The way I read Joan's post is she is talking about a few people in the Middle East? Not the whole population.

And if I thought someone was trashing my country I would stay and defend it . I do not do pick and mix when speaking of wrongs carried out by countries , if a country does wrong saying so is not trashing a country , it's speaking the truth .

Her country trashed? Rubbish, Australia did take ship loads of British children from homes and placed many as farm workers until the sixties - fact. The aborigines had their own country taken from them , wer deprived of decent housing, education and work - fact, they received an apology nine years ago and we should applaud?

What was offensive ?

I wouldn't dream of dismissing an entire country or an entire region because of the actions of a few extremists, but Joandid quite glibly. I don't mind having discussions about things but sorry, sometimes it isn't worth making a point, particularly when such dismissive remarks are made. Australia has a problem to deny that isn't helpful.

Oh I see, Joans better gone because her opinions on the Middle east differ from you who of course know everything, and your opinion is the only one that can be discussed! Long live democracy. I'm afraid this is an arrogant attitude very prevalent in this country of ours, which transgresses politics, and is probably a hang over from empire! To criticise another person's country to the point of being offensive is actually insulting and downright rude; No wonder Australians still refer to us as 'pommie b. s' It's also obvious that only European countries are ever taken to task by our holier than thou moral police. There are many appalling governments in this world of ours, who treat their people diabolically,but surprise surprise not a whisper! How selective and hypocritical is that?!! Lets have a pop at Australia, oh, and while we're at it, insult one of its citizens, who, although they may even agree with you, doesn't actually take kindly to having her country trashed by 'poms, as indeed I wouldn't the other way round.'

Nigglynellie , seems I know more about Australia than Joan does about the Middle East , she voiced her opinions as did I, you seem to have a problem niggly

Anyone who makes statements about the Middle East such as Joan has is probably better gone.
What's that Christian saying about only seeing the mote in your neighbour's eye not in your own?

Oh for goodness sake give it a rest! Why are you people gunning for Australia?! I suppose it makes a change from Britain, but FGS how.can Joan help her government's policy or country's past?! Well done ab you've driven yet someone else off these threads by your hostile insulting comments, about a country you clearly know little about. Someone who might have something interesting to say has gone thanks to your intolerance and hostile attitude, well done indeed!

Joan A couple of years ago I went to see a screening of the film "Utopia" by John Pilger, which was about the degrading and disrespectful treatment of aboriginal people, both in the past but - more importantly - at the present time. It was truly horrifying that in this day and age in a wealthy country like Australia its original inhabitants should be so badly treated.

In the Middle East, ancient slights and wrongs and blood feuds last forever. There is simply no way to deal with such people and they are best left alone. They chew on anger and resentment and judgemental attitudes, like chewing on an everlasting old bone.

In our civilised western industrial nations there are also a few people like this, and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. Their sanctimonious self-righeousness is best ignored.

Hence I leave this thread.

2007? That is only nine years ago , when did persecution of the aborigines start? Yet the Middle East are condemned for not apologising now? Have we apologise for bombing Iraq and Afghanistan? Yes there are Australians who want justice for the aborigines but surely to say they are having extra benefits etc with such pride is so wrong ? How many generations died before the apology and the extra benefits. And let us not forget - it is their country

As for the sensible aboriginal women - sense or fear ?