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Religion/spirituality

There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

(613 Posts)
jinglbellsfrocks Wed 21-Oct-15 09:46:47

Early this morning, on the World Service, I heard the voice of a six year old boy crying out to the doctors treating him, "Don't let me die! Don't bury me!". The doctors, trying to reassure him, laughed and said, "You're not going to die".

It was in the Yemen. The little boy had just seen a three year old, put into the ground. He was wounded himself shortly afterwards.

He died. The doctors were unable to save him.

If you have heard that young voice on a video on the internet, you will agree with me.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 23-Oct-15 09:44:04

I hope you don't leave Nannygoat. It's mostly good isn't it?

rosequartz Fri 23-Oct-15 09:43:15

vq that was just one person who you think was a 'good Christian'. Who knows if they are right or not?

Jesus himself cried out to God on the cross, some believe doubting him.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 23-Oct-15 09:41:05

I hope there's no bullying on here! (a little bit of bitching won't hurt too much wink)

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 23-Oct-15 09:38:53

Yes Nannygoat. At least it's not as bad. It was an honest opinion about another post. I certainly was not calling the poster stupid. "Go figure" has connotations of a deliberate, and mindless, insult. IMO.

rosesarered Fri 23-Oct-15 09:31:30

There are many threads on GN where you can just have a natter, but they can't all be like that.

Cherrytree59 Fri 23-Oct-15 09:26:07

That's very sad Nannygoat. Could you please before you go just start a thread and tell GN what you would have like to have found on GN. Halp us to understand what was missing for you.

Feetlebaum you have just read my mind!! You have put it much better than I could have. It all depends on where you were born. Just like skin, hair colour etc.
.

rosesarered Fri 23-Oct-15 09:17:00

Don't slam the door on the way out!

NannyGoat12345 Fri 23-Oct-15 09:09:26

Jings, earlier on in this thread, you called someone else's comment 'plain stupid', is that any better than 'go figure'?

Anyway, after a few months on Gransnet I realise that the forums are not for me, too much bitching and bullying, I am going to get on with my 'perfect' life without it. I am not really sure why I joined Gransnet, I thought maybe I would find a like kind, but no, I haven't, far from it.

Bye.....

feetlebaum Fri 23-Oct-15 09:07:06

This thread, fascinating as it is, has concentrated on just one god, in which many of us here claim to believe. What made you all choose that one, out of the more than two thousand that have been created and worshipped? Just geography? In other words because it was the prevalent belief in your country of origin? Otherwise you might have been Muslim or Hindu or,,,

Certainly the claims of 'personal relationship with' a deity are unacceptable as evidence, as they cannot be replicated by others, and are merely anecdotal. One often encounters claims that someone 'just knows'... that reminded Bertrand Russell that Aristotle taught his students
that women had fewer teeth than men. He just knew it... he could have asked a compient Greek lady to open her mouth and let him count, but no, he just knew, and that was enough for old Aris. So much for 'just knowing'!

Anniebach Fri 23-Oct-15 08:41:03

Vampirequeen, why did you think the 'good Christian ' was correct ?

NfkDumpling Fri 23-Oct-15 08:29:54

Granny23, Cherrytree, your posts are very moving and do, in my mind, prove that there is no Loving God who sees the smallest sparrow fall. But, how long has there been this Loving God? My memory tells me that until fairly recently God was omnipotent - apart from a few probables with a rebellious Satan/Devil who would upset the apple cart - but he wasn't loving. Or forgiving. Not in the least. In fact if you upset him, or your parents, or their parents etc, he could be very vengeful and not very nice at all! If something happened like the horrors described by Granny and Cherrytree it must have been in retribution for something done by a loved one. You had to toe the line, be meek and obedient and obey your pastor, vicar, father, prior, minister... Or else!

I do feel there should be a reason for our existence - the universe and everything that is - so I'm agnostic. I feel there is something, but am unable to comprehend what. Maybe I'll find out one day, or maybe there'll just be oblivion.

vampirequeen Fri 23-Oct-15 07:58:42

When my son died I was still a believer. In fact I clung to that belief because of the promise that I'd see him again. But one day when I was feeling particularly grief stricken and was calling God names I was told by a 'good' Christian that by speaking in that manner I was condemning myself to Hell. Over the years and through many traumatic events I have insulted and cursed God on many occasions. If he's truly omnipotent then he should have broad enough shoulders to take my curses. If he's not then, tough.

Now I'm agnostic. The belief is too ingrained to give it up completely (yet) but too much has happened in my life to believe in an all loving, omnipotent God.

Cherrytree59 Fri 23-Oct-15 00:55:26

The op and your post granny123 brought tears to my eyes. To take a child is an unbearable thing! it happened twice in our family. All I want to do now is. Love protect my darling INNOCENT grandsons.
My parents had to leave their homeland. Because of religious people who put their god First . My mother died a dreadful death at young age. Leaving my young sister motherless. My father who became deaf through a bomb blast In the blitz was left with out his 'Rock'. He was left for thirty years a widower.. Then had ten years of painful illness before dying a terrible undignified death.

Cherrytree59 Fri 23-Oct-15 00:46:51

The op and your post granny123 brought tears to my eyes. To take a child is an unbearable thing! it happened twice in our family. All I want to do now is. Love protect my darling INNOCENT grandsons.
My parents had to leave their homeland. Because of religious people who put their god First . My mother died a dreadful death at young age. Leaving my young sister motherless. My father who became deaf through a bomb blast In the blitz was left with out his 'Rock'. He was left for thirty years a widower.. Then had ten years of painful illness before dying a terrible undignified death.

harrigran Fri 23-Oct-15 00:17:15

Well said Granny23.
Having worked in a children's hospital and seen death and suffering of such innocents, I could not give praise to this supposed saviour.

Eloethan Fri 23-Oct-15 00:11:01

I found that very moving Granny23.

Granny23 Thu 22-Oct-15 23:57:16

I was brought up in a Christian (Church of Scotland) family, never questioning the beliefs of my parents, teachers, Sunday School until, when I was sixteen two things happened. Firstly the darling only child of a couple who lived across the road, simply slipped on a slide at school, banged her head and died. She was a late baby, who arrived unexpectedly 20 years after her parents' marriage, an angelic child, a ray of sunshine, good as gold - truly a gift from God. She was 11 years old when she died, her funeral was on Christmas Eve.

Within a month another neighbour came to our house in great distress. Her friend, having spent most of her life caring for her disabled father and aged mother, filled the gap they left by adopting a boy who had been born severely mentally and physically disabled. It had taken her over a year to persuade the authorities that he could be cared for in a loving home rather than the special needs orphanage where he had been from birth. She became his mother and devoted herself to him working tirelessly to teach him every day skills. She was so successful that aged 6 he was able to walk, talk, feed and dress himself and started primary school just a year late - Praise be to God. As a reward for the lad's hard work and determination his Uncle bought him a brand new 3 wheeler bike and the wee boy was over the moon when he found that he could work the pedals and zoomed all round the garden, straight down the drive into the path of a car and was killed instantly.

The driver was distraught, his Mum blamed herself for leaving the gates wide open, Uncle felt it was all his fault. Our neighbour, who had become 'Auntie' and regaled us with tales of his progress, could not accept the reality of his death at all. For the second time my Father cried and hugged us tight.

Me? I learned that there was not a 'loving heavenly Father'. I realised that my own earthly Father (and Mother) would literally move heaven and earth if the could, or give their own life willingly to save me, yet this God we all worshipped could not be bothered to lift his little finger to avert these tragedies. I lost all faith & trust in God and decided that I would instead place my faith and trust in human beings and indeed throughout my life in times of trouble it has been friends, neighbours and total strangers who have helped me and brought me comfort - a debt which I strive to repay in my everyday life.

If all the good religious people in the world devoted the time, money and energy they spend on religious observances to doing some practical good the world would be a better place.

soontobe Thu 22-Oct-15 23:43:17

smile
You dont come across on gransnet as being more disobedient than anyone else!

But if I remember correctly, Paul in the New Testament was one of the most disobedient men on the planet in his time.

If someone is genuinely sorry and asks forgiveness, all that persons' sins are forgiven.

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 23:36:09

Part of Christianity is obedience.
Perhaps that's where I have a problem with it soon

I never was very good at doing as I'm told hmm

soontobe Thu 22-Oct-15 23:34:20

Anniebach. OUt of interest, do you pray "Thy kingdom come"?

soontobe Thu 22-Oct-15 23:32:32

*I don't understand how one can believe in a God of love who is also a God of vengeance

If you read the Bible in its entire 66 books, that is not difficult to understand.
Part of Christianity is obedience.

durhamjen www.victorious.org/cbook/chur21 Last paragraph of the link. I am the former and not the latter. Though I appreciate that we are talking on an online forum and not in real life.
Do you have a problem with the former?

durhamjen Thu 22-Oct-15 22:59:16

I agree, Anniebach.

Anniebach Thu 22-Oct-15 22:56:42

Jen, fundamentalists trouble me because some judge all Christians to hold the same beliefs , yes belief in God, but not in fire and brimstone , that is living in fear in my opinion , I don't understand how one can believe in a God of love who is also a God of vengeance

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 22:55:41

wink

stirring up with aggressive language is not that nice though, is it although perhaps not evil! hmm
(not you jings)

However, I have never come across anyone before who claimed to be perfect and has never ever had the slightest evil thought.
Even the most humble and virtuous of people I have met in my life would not proclaim that.

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 22-Oct-15 22:50:50

Having bad thoughts, or even posting something unkind, doesn't make you evil!