There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

No, it isn't a cop out trisher it's true and quoting Socrates does nothing for your argument. For me as a Christian examining my life is a big part of my faith and relationship with God.

Socrates was only a man giving his opinion.

That's a cop out Smileless2012 As Socrates said "The unexamined life is not worth living"

You can't have a theoretical argument about faith trisher, you either have it or you don't.

I don't know trisher. I can only go on what I feel in the life I live but I do know that there are many people who have lost their faith because of some tradegy in their lives and many others who have been through the most appalling suffering who cling to their faith and some who die for it. I just find it odd that people who say they don't believe in God blame him for all the troubles in the world.

It's a theoretical argument Crafting you can have them about all sorts of things. And I have yet to see any argument that successfully explains the situation in Yemen and the boy's death. If you have faith that's fine for you. But I wonder if you lived in Yemen would you still believe?

I believe in God. Is it always easy. No it is not. I do not blame God for the bad things others do in his name but it is still hard to understand "why bad things happen to good people". All I can tell you is that for me there has been something within me from a child that had a belief. It did not come from my parents who were 2 of the nicest people I have ever met but they were not in any way religious. It was just there. I don't feel the need to justify my faith but it does surprise me that others who say they have no faith condem God for all today's problems. If you don't believe there is a God how can you blame this figure you don't believe exists. Yet you expect those of us who do believe to blame him or challenge us to justify all the bad things that happen in the world. I can't. Firstly I'm not clever enough and secondly I would not know how to explain what it is I feel or even why I feel the way I do. It is just there and it is called faith, and hope.

When you love trisher you want the recipients of that love to love you in return. God doesn't want us to worship Him He wants us to love him and He wants us to do that because we want too which is why we have free will.

Can't say I've ever come across that theory but God didn't leave us "to get on with things" He sent His son to die for us, He gave us the opportunity to be with Him for eternity by accepting Him and Jesus in our lives.

'You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink'. God didn't create automatons to control and when He saw the mess mankind was making of the lives He'd given, He sent salvation. It's up to us whether or not we choose to accept His wonderful gift.

Still there is the theory that if we are made in god's image he must have been fairly young and busy when he made us and, like many things are with anyone, we have been left to get on with things whilst he did other more interesting stuff. He might eventually decide to come back and sort things out but he might not. Oh and of course if he is omnipotent and all powerful the worship of a few people on a little planet means absolutely nothing to him.

I don't believe in God but I try to be kind, loving, tolerant, forgiving and all the things that I think human beings should be. Sometimes I fail. I have been to many churches to support other people as I respect their beliefs and their right to believe.

My DC were not christened but went to Church Schools and Sunday school. I felt they could learn about religion and make their own informed choices eventually. I did not discuss my own beliefs when they were young. They did not choose to believe and used the same strategies with their own children.

Now two DGD's have been baptised and one of them confirmed in the last couple of months. Before this they showed no interest in religion. As many of the oldest DGD's class were also being confirmed I suspect some peer pressure. The younger one (8yrs old) was told by her mother, 'You may as well get done (baptised) at the same time'. I must say I found it hard to keep quiet but I did.

I went to the services. The vicar and the Bishop who did the confirmation were lovely with the children. I have the unfortunate habit of listening to what is said in church , which many of the congregation don't seem to do, and I was struck when the Bishop said 'Christians are here for the non believers' and 'whether you believe or not you are welcome to join in these celebrations'.

Well I am not converted. The cynic in me thought it was an excellent marketing technique. After all it is good insurance 'just in case'. I do not mean to disrespect anyone's belief and I am happy that religion can be a support to those who need it, but I have accepted that there are bad things and people in the world. On the other hand I feel that they are far outnumbered by the good. I know that when I die I will be recycled and that some of my genes will live on in descendants. That is enough for me.

Yes that's true trisher religion is often used to justify man's inhumanity to man. God can also conveniently be blamed for the evil acts of man usually for His 'failure' to intervene.

That said, it doesn't represent "the trouble with (G)god" but the trouble with man kind.

I wonder if the mother of the child in the Yemen would agree with you?
Someone who kills in the name of their god would probably argue that theirs is the one true god. That's the trouble with god he/she can be used to justify all sorts of things.

There's a huge difference trisher in believing in God and some one believing in "their god". If someone who has committed and act or acts of evil finds God, not just religion, and truly repents then God will forgive them. It's a difficult concept for us to grasp but is God's promise to all.

It is difficult to understand why such terrible things happen in this world but they are examples of man's inhumanity to man, and not God's. We continue to live with trauma within our own family and our belief in God sustains us, perhaps because it is belief in God rather than a god. He has also shown us that He has neither lost interest or can't be bothered.

Luckygirl thanks for the Epicurus says exactly what needs to be said.
But as for those who believe in god what do you think happens to someone who kills or commits acts of evil because they believe their god requires it of them?
What about someone who commits evil acts and then finds religion just before he/she dies will they be forgiven?
I can understand that it might be comforting to believe in a god when there are traumatic events in your family, but looking at the wider world must cast doubts on that.
As for those who claim god couldn't intervene, didn't he part the Red Sea for the Israelites? Are we to assume he has since lost interest and now can't be bothered?

NannyC2for me your post is proof that God exists. I hope He blesses you and your family.

NannyC nice post. Sorry your grandson and family have so much to cope with.

I do not agree with you.
Jesus was with that little boy in his suffering, just as he is with my 10 year old grandson who has suffered since his birth. He cannot walk, talk, is fed through a tube into his stomach, as well as many other problems. Yet he still maintains the most adorable smile.
Love transcends all pain, and if you allow Jesus into life, then you will know what I am talking about.
The Good News is that we cannot die, because Jesus, the son of God died for all of us, and his love is unconditional. God gave us free choice - he did not create wars - man does that. One day all will be revealed, meanwhile love and show to all those you meet.

God Bless

I think, ( and it is just my own opinion, and I'm sure many will disagree), that it is we humans (some, not all) who do the bad and evil things, not God.

I agree with the OP that there is no loving heavenly father. To claim that there is is a unusual notion of what a father does.

However there is no need, because of loss of childish belief in Santa Claus -type God, to lose faith in eternal goodness.

Our beliefs systems have changed throughout our existence. This is simply another particular period we are going through with world religions being dominant at the moment. This will change and a different evolved belief system will eventually take our current arrangement.

Just re read the title of this thread, so would just like to say if there is a God he definitely is not 'loving ' and going back to the writings of the Bible , in the Old Testament he was allegedly forever inciting war & for tribes to rise up & smote other tribes, thankfully (according to the bible) he realised it wasn't a very nice thing to do, so sent his son to show us the way, but by having his son killed in the most barbaric way ! ??

You are right Annie, it it pontless to look for proof that God exists or that God does not exist.

Faith means belief without objective proof.

We should let people believe what they like and practice their religion or philosophy however they wish as long as it does not restrict the freedom of others or harm society.

Then pointless stating something as fact if it cannot be proved isn't it? I choose to say I believe in God and respect those who say I don't believe in God.

Exactly Devongirl, it cannot be proved or disproved one way or the other. I seriously have friends who believe in fairies.

Of course that is the answer, norose4, but by the same token, why should someone be asked for proof that God doesn't exist? Surely that is also a matter of belief.