A thread to debate the existence or otherwise of the Christian God

Not really Jingle, he had the farm for a long time , I would think the birth of his third child so long after the children from his marriage would have caused life changes, I don't know, just a thought

It went badly wrong for him didn't it? Poor bloke.

Unless it was just to let us know how many famous people you know/have known...

He didn't give up journalism, he tried to run the farm in Carmarthenshire and work in London , not wise, he sold the land but kept the house untill a couple of years ago.

Still no clearer as to whether he believed before Aberfan and doubted afterwards, or whether he always doubted and Aberfan confirmed his agnosticism...

In fact, what was the point of your post, anniebach?

He left it all behind and farmed in Wales for a while didn't he? Didn't work out though.

Noooo Jingle, I only met the man twice , knew his brother Bob , one conversation Aberfan came up and he said looking back it was that which played a big part in him doubting

Exactly Ana. There is very little we can be absolutely sure about.I believe we can know things on a spiritual level but even here there is room for doubt.

ab

Name dropper! (*ab*)

Do you mean he was a believer before that time? I wonder why he just became agnostic rather than atheist.

I think the vast majority of people is agnostic in reality. How can anyone be sure either way?

John Humphreys the broadcaster is agnostic, he told me it was covering the Aberfan disaster in 1966 which was a major factor in this

I am not sure about that Annie but there is some evidence that genetically some people are more likely to have a religious belief, which would probably bear out that thought.

I particularly admire Christopher Hitchens as his deep concern for humanity and for his fellows shone through. An admirable man, who was able to express himself with great clarity.

I agree and am always open to opinions, do you not think when it comes to faith or no faith it is so personal , what ever one believes can rarely be changed by the opinions of others ?

They are respected literary figures and I found it very interesting to hear what they have to say.

Thank you Lucklygirl, difficult to think through the opinions of some of them though

This is intriguing - a video of writers and poets talking about god. It is a bit long, but well worth a listen.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpxoD9KFpHI

soon, that you don't agree much with Donald Soper explains much to me

1st paragraph I think I have answered your question, and I dont understand the second part.

No one has been judged yet, and from what I have read of Donald Soper, I dont agree much with him. He has to be judged by God just as everyone else has to be.
I interpret the Bible. There is no such thing as intrepreting the Methodist Church.

You speak of fear, judgement, punishment constantly

Really? I do do more than I would because a lot of people only read part or parts of it, so I am trying to offer balance.
I do have a little trouble with mouthing off about all the good works that chapels in our area do, as that would out me. And it sounds like bragging. But I suppose I could list some in vague terms.

soon, anyone living in fear of your God of retribution will never know perfect love , perhaps you missed that very small verse in the bible - God Is Love

Your interpretation of the teachings of the Methodist church is the very opposite of the late, great and much loved Donald Soper

You speak of fear, judgement, punishment constantly, you say every word in the bible is written by God and you think Leviticus laws should still be followed

" if they havent got the interpretation right" - right according to whom? - to your interpretation or someone else's, of which there will be millions?

If you read it all, you can try and work out which bits you have intrepreted a bit wrong on the first few readings.

"You wont be let off things" - there's the judgmental bit!! Let of from what exactly?

That is not me judging!

Let off from sin.

*There is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love

John 1. 4.18. New Testament . KJV*

Absolutely correct. But who has perfect love? Meanwhile we fear until, well until we die I assume.

Where is the love of one's fellow human beings in all this? And gentleness? And kindness? Is that not all that really matters? It would be nice to read of the caring side of your religion - maybe there isn't one in your interpretation. Might it be worth looking for it?

I would hope I very much exhibit it on this thread, let alone all the good works that Methodists do as a church.
Google Methodist churches and have a look for yourself. Pick any one at random.

feetlebaum. Testing and bullying are not the same, I think you will agree.

I do question myself why the BIble is not written in a much clearer straightforward way. But then think, well it is not my Bible, it is God's!