Lords Prayer advert banned

I'm going back to my original belief that the ad was not and is not banned. See link for explanation.

Maybe atheists don't think carols are hymns, ab. I wouldn't know. I don't sing hymns or carols, nor do I think about them. I used to sing in a choir though and much of what we sang had religious connections. This is because in the past (it was old music we sang on the whole) it was religious people who commissioned the music. It was the music I was singing and enjoying. Any words were just padding whose meaning, as far as I was concerned, didn't matter a jot. Maybe people regard hymns and carols they were brought up with in the same light as nursery rhymes: a harmless and often pleasant part of their culture that had a meaning once but whose meaning now doesn't matter to them.

Thank you Luckygirl, an explanation at last .

I think if I asked - do you put milk in first it would have brought out sarcasm in some

I agree , if a Christian prayer then prayers from all faiths , this is not a Christian country , we have a Christian head of state , that's it

I think the decision of the cinema is the right one; firstly because it adheres to their agreed policy (so they had not choice), and also because it would open up the possibility that other faiths might quite reasonably insist they could should be able to recite one of their prayers before films.

I celebrate Christmas because it is an opportunity to remind ourselves of the need to be kind to others, for families to get together and for some of the worthwhile aspects of the myth to penetrate our thinking - e.g. the concept of strength in weakness that is embodied in the baby Jesus myth. You do not have to believe the letter of what you hear to take away some useful insights into human nature.

And yes - I sing carols, because it is these myths that have inspired many musicians and artists to their best work.

I play and sing a lot for local churches - even as an agnostic I am happy to sit through the sermons etc. and sometimes there are useful ideas to take away that do not demand a belief in the super-natural. There is also a whole lot that I cannot believe and some bits that I find frankly objectionable, but I'm happy to help out as the church in its local incarnation here is pretty harmless.

Thatbags, seems you just don't understand my posts or choose to ignore them, let me try again

I am interested in the reasons why atheists sing hymns but do not want prayer mentioned unless behind closed doors, got that bit ?

I have not said how I think atheists should celebrate. Christmas, it is. Their choice , I don't care, got it now ?

People who are quite certain they don't believe should go back to the old name of Yule. Hypocritical to use the Christian name for it.

Here's a concise summation: @samdick: "Either someone at CoE knew the advertising rules and is being deceptive or didn't know them and is being incompetent.Tut tut."

I certainly would feel uncomfortable going to Church to celebrate, as I don't believe. Our local Vicar always used to make refences to 'how nice to see so many of you here- would be nice to see you other times too' ...

Christmas of course if very ancient- and had originally nothing to do with Christianity. So for many of us it ahs a very different meaning.

I totally agree with the 'ban' as adverts are much better to stay non-religious.

Must say I am much much more concerned about the massive sexualisation of young girls in so many adverts this years.

It is truly time to separate Church and State imho.

I even send seasonal greetings to my Muslim friends, and they are perfectly happy about that.

I don't celebrate a Christ Mass, jings. The word Christmas covers that meaning but it also covers all the other interpretations, of which mine is one.

Oh, face it ab. Christmas isn't what it used to be. Christianity is fading fast. Christmas is just a jolly holiday these days. It just happens to still use the old name. (Which is odd in itself)

Bags don't you feel a bit uncomfortable, celebrating a Christ-mass when you don't actually believe the back story. No you don't. Neither do I.

Exactly thatbags. Imposing anything on people who don't want it is not a good thing, and this is what would be happening, whatever religion it happened to be, so, thank you, but no thank you!

I celebrate Christmas in the way I want, i.e. in an atheist way. It marks the passing of the shortest day of the year. People can call it what they want. I usually call it Christmas but it isn't a christian festival in our house because we are not christians. Is that a problem? Are we not allowed to interpret the passing seasons in our own way? If not, why not?

Christianity does not own the midwinter celebrations even though it sometimes looks as if they'd like to.

Christians can make their part of it as religious as they like. No-one is stopping them, just as no-one is stopping me from making my christmas about the passing solstice.

People who want to can say the Lord's Prayer anywhere they want, ab, silently or out loud except, obviously, in a situation where they would disturb someone else, e.g. someone watching a TV programme wouldn't thank them if it interupted the sound of the broadcasr. Why isn't that enough? I would have thought that that was complete freedom to express one's religion.

What one isn't completely free to do, and neither are people of any other faith or none, is impose the prayer on others when others don't want it. That is what a religious cinema ad would effectively do.

Would you want to have, say, Islamic prayers imposed on you in such a way?

No matter that there use to be a winter festival, I just want to understand why The Lords Prayer should be said only in the home or church but singing praise of the birth is for public places, shops, streets etc

'Our father who art in heaven ' must not be said in public but 'oh come let us adore Christ The Lord ' be said in public and why do atheists sing of praising a Christ who on this forum has been considered the same as the tooth fairy

Winterval was never a contender for the Christmas slot - it was an Arts Festival organised by Birmingham Council, to run for a specified time and then to finish. Our wonderful meejuh - no idea which paper started it - then did their usual worst.

Christmas wasn't something the Church was interested in, until it needed something to take over the winter celebration ("The sun WILL come back!") - and as you know even today much of the original celebrations survive - Yule log, Christmas Tree, Gift-giving, role reversal - do the Officers still serve the men with dinner on Christmas Day? That's straight from the Roman Saturnalia.

Christians in one of the American Colonies banned Christmas... Christianity arrived very late at the feast... ahead of it were all those other sects with deities born of virgins on 25th December. Mithra is one that comes to mind, but there is a fairly long list.

So no, atheist folks do not celebrate a Christian festival, how could we? It's merely a Christianised celebration of the turnaround that brings back the light and the warmth, after it had all ebbed away in the late Autumn.

And why not the Lord's Prayer since nearly every commercial at this time of year (it isn't even Advent yet!) has a carol as soundtrack. With words. So much for not using religious material. Jingle Bells, Hark the Herald Angels, what's the difference?

Yes TerriBull, I know Christmas came after winter feasting, but I don't see why the majority in this discussion think The Lords Prayer should be reserved for the home or church but are happy to sing of Christs birth publicly , and to exchange greetings of Happy Christ's Mass , I am curious [ smile ]

Diwali not Divali and Winterval not Winterville

Some of our traditions such as winter feasting pre date Christianity. Christmas itself has been with us for centuries. Personally I can't stand all that mealy mouthed Happy Holidays, Winterville stuff. Why should we offload our customs, in the name of what for heavens sake.

I worked for a Jewish firm in my younger days, they didn't have a problem celebrating Christmas, which of course they don't believe in. Similarly I have read the same about Hindus, Muslims and other denominations. We have Hindu neighbours nearby who cover their house with lights (very tasteful ones) for Divali and then again for Christmas I believe I'm right in saying that some Hindus particularly love the whole "light up" aspect of Christmas. Personally I hate the commercial side and it just goes on for too long, I was discussing this with a German friend last week and she said it's all a bit more low key in Germany which I would prefer.

Nevertheless, I still always select my cards with a "Christmas" greeting in them somewhere, not Happy Holidays. As for Winterville straight to Room 101 with that one

this is what puzzles me, atheists sing carols which are praise of the birth they think is fiction , they exchange Christmas greetings of Christ's Mass , which again is for them fiction . Why not greet with Happy Holiday , send happy holiday cards , Mark 25th December as Winterville Day

So who is paying to advertise murder, rape or theft? If you mean as plot features in forthcoming attractions that is hardly a comparison, since we can assume you do not consider prayer to be a mere fictional device.

It has always been an anomaly that you could show (simulated) murder, but not (simulated) love-making...

Another example of cultural confusion! People of faith think of prayer as an essential part of life, secular people think it's a private hobby. If you don't believe in the man (or woman) in the sky, why should prayer worry you? Saying the Our Father shouldn't cause any more problems than someone reciting a Shakespeare sonnet. Incidentally, the 'it might offend people of other faiths' argument doesn't hold water. I've been to interfaith events where nearly everyone has joined in with the Lord's Prayer.

So murder, rape, theft, is acceptable but not a prayer ?

I have no problem with banning religion, all religions, from cinemas. I think this was put forward and to be paid for as an 'advert'. That's not on.

Thanks for the link jingle, I hadn't seen it.

So not an advert for the church