Mother Teresa a saint?

Can't believe I've told a dead person to sod bloody off. (well, nearly anyway) Sorry God.

I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one - especially in regard to her stance on contraception and abortion.

I don't agree with the concept of sainthood anyway.

Christopher Hitchens expressed his opinion on lots of issues - what's wrong with that?

Hear, hear, lucky! He was indeed very much imperfect, as we all are, and would have been the first to acknowledge it, probably with great humour.

Sainthood, or 'pedestalhood', is a weird concept.

I was a fan of Hitchens, am not a believer, can't be doing with sainthood, am pro contraceptives and pro-choice but would like to say a couple of things in defence of Mother Theresa:

About 30 years' ago I worked with two nurses who'd worked for many years with MT in Calcutta - they were both full of genuine praise. Apparently a lot of really good humanitarian work and relief of suffering took place.

I've never volunteered to care for those dying on the streets or suffering from leprosy so am full of admiration for those who do, regardless of their wacky belief in a god.

And, in the 1980s she was in London and made a particular point of visiting the homeless in cardboard city during the night. I distinctly remember the TV interview with her - she was wearing a woolly cardi and said how sad it was to see 'our people' sleeping rough in such cold weather.

She drew the ire of Mrs Thatcher who wasn't best pleased.

"Christopher Hitchens expressed his opinion on lots of issues - what's wrong with that?"

Not a lot, considering it's what he did for a living! Remember when he had been defending the use of waterboarding as a form of torture? He arranged to have himself put through it - twice. He then publicly altered his opinion... He certainly didn't lack courage.

I find Hitchens gripes unobjective in many ways .his argument say precious little about the appalling state of poverty for the Indian poor who would be dying on the streets.
The woman in the clip was talking about taking them off to hospitals for drips etc. Most poor Indians probably do not get medical care because they cannot afford it. This is a political issue for Indians government. Meanwhile until the Indian government make proper changes to the society there will still be the poverty . OK Hitchens did not seem to address the politics of India at all about the level of poverty and urban neglect that cause this but they appear to be holding Mother Teresa responsible for all these woes. She was criticised for meeting the rich and famous who could possible help finance her work.
I do not believe on saints and miracles at all. Coincidences yes. I object to the RC churches continued attitude to the rejecting birth control.

However Hitchens rant showed no objectivity at all about any of this and was basically a rant about religion itself. Hitchens style of delivery suggests to me he is an Atheist zealot. I don't mind atheists but I worry that zelotry of any sort may lead to extremism.
Mother Teresa herself does not deserve the vitriol shown in that clip. I am not impressed or swayed by that rant. I would preferred a less biased more objective discussion and assessment of the issues raised . that man is scary in his presentation. Nazi propaganda style comes to my mind. Most typos are down to no breakfast yet and using my Tablet

I think Hitch was criticising Mother T for not using the vast funds that have been donated to her for expanding the number of convents instead of for relieving, where she could, the diseases of those she 'took off the streets', such as that of the fifteen year old boy with a kidney infection.

He's not the only one who thinks she concentrated on religion rather than on relieving the suffering of the people she is supposed to have helped.

And she certainly had a political agenda herself regarding contraception and abortion.

I think his criticisms are valid, which is why I posted what I did post in the OP: that he told a 'different story' from that of the pope. I see his argument as against the sanctifying of imperfect human beings, not as vitriol.

Well they can't sanctified a perfect human being can they? No such thing. If the R C church wishes to sanctified someone then it's up to that church , non RC's can just ignore it

I heard that the Vatican invited Hitchens to speak against the issue of sainthood for MT in the interests of thoroughly investigating the issue.

It does seem bizarre to a non-believer that highly educated and intelligent people can believe in such stuff as miracles.

Obviously the first miracle clocked to MT, so some time ago. There has to be a second miracle before she is made a Saint.

Mother Teresa might not be as squeaky clean as her PR machine (the RC church) would have us believe. There are questions about her support for certain priests and rumours of bullying which have been circulating over the years.

Perhaps theses have been investigated by the Vatican and proved to have been unfounded? I certainly hope so as these things have a habit of resurfacing and biting you in the tail.

Higgins was an outspoken critic of hers for years, as have others.

Re my last post - read it and decide for yourself

'No such thing as a perfect human being'

I agree, anniebach - I remember a poster on another thread getting very cross with me because I suggested that we all have good and evil within us, most manage better than others to overcome the worst instincts of mankind.
Not a usual poster I should add. It would be interesting to meet a perfect human being, though. Probably very boring.

Sainthood is subjective and up to the Catholic church. Those of us who are not Catholics could discuss whether or not it is appropriate until Kingdom come, but it will not make a jot of difference to us, only to those of the RC faith.
Sadly, with her stance on contraception and abortion it's not likely to advance the cause of poor women much if she becomes a saint.
Btw she has been beatified for about 12 years now so this next step has been anticipated for some time.

Like so many others, I feel so uncomfortable about her supposed miracle and the whole concept of Saints. And as said, she used the money given to her for the Chruch and missions rather than the poor, and her attitude to contraception, in the circumstances she worked in in particular, was inhuman. But a Saint??? No.

If your not a R C why does it matter

I was wondering the same thing ab.

Jingle, if it's what the R C believes then that's it , no concern of mine and I really don't care if she is sanctified or not, and it will not be of concern to her either

I do not think you have to be an RC to care about her flawed care of sick poor people or her rather warped attitude to suffering. As to the sainthood thing - who cares indeed?

Luckygirl, it was opinions on her being sanctified that I was referring to not opinions to her life and work

As to her life and work, all that I know is that she ran a tight ship and relieved a lot of suffering, but that was just one tv programme.I did think, that she was making a point ( that she didn't need to, a bit like Gandhi did by wearing a dhoti) when she met the Queen wearing a shapeless old cardie with big holes in it.However, on the sainthood question, it is in itself a lot of nonsense, and these so called miracles are either made up entirely or believed by deluded people.

Having said that, I think the case for MT is as good if not better than any other people who have been canonised.

There are many thousands of people living in extreme poverty around the world whose problems can be directly attributed to her campaigns on birth control. She saw contraception as one of the main evils in the world and flew around the world saying so to impoverished uneducated people. Wicked indeed.

Well said Luckygirl

Mind you, Luckygirl so did all the Popes, and after all, she was a Catholic.