From the Humanist Association - discuss

Yet Granjura you want to close good schools because you personally have a problem with faith.

Did the lies and cheating in your family take place in the UK or another country?

Granjura, I never speak for an entire country just my own experience and my own views, I did not say Muslim children in Wales attend church in Wales schools , I know of children of faiths who attend church schools which is not their faith.

As long as parents have a choice between sink schools and Faith Schools (for umpteen reasons which have nothing to do with religion)- they will choose the schools which will have the best facilities to help their children along (and lie, pretend, scam their way into this- there is much evidence of this- in my family too. Like buying property and pretend they live there, have sham baptism and attendance for as long as it takes, etc). Some CofE schools are also used as free prep schools for private secondary schools- with the curriculum biased towards preparation for entrance exams, etc.

So sorry Tricia , I will use my elder granddaughters excuse - not my fault if I have the memory of a goldfish

But it doesn't square does it , church schools are full, churches are often almost empty unless a festival

That is an excellent question. And the answer is probably very complex indeed, and has little to do with religion.

Bags, I agree.

So Muslim children in Wales are happily sent by their parents to the CofW school. But if in England Faith school were to disappear, the children would be kept at home. Confused.com.

What is for sure, is that if Christians of the RC and CofE denominations continue to have separate Faith schools, Muslims and others will insist on having their own. However, if all schools are secular- as is the case in most of Europe- then it is clear that Muslims do and will send their children there.

I asked that question too, Annie, last Wednesday at 2.46pm.
Big storm in a teacup.

Perhaps someone can give an explanation ? If Anglican Church schools are teaching children - what thatbags refers to as faith stuff - how come the number of parents trying to get their children into these church schools is increasing, but the number of Christians in this country are decreasing

Luckygirl I'm sure you don't mean what your comment implies. Faith isn't 'taught as fact' it's taught as faith. The historical aspects of faith are taught as history, the literary aspects are taught as poetry or narrative or whatever, the doctrinal aspects are taught as doctrine, ritual as ritual and so on. And because you don't agree with the faith, it doesn't follow that it is wrong.

But thatbags the head of the CofE is looked upon as all that's good no matter she says her faith has guided her and strengthened her .

I didn't say all Muslim children I did say many and I believe this

Only because they exist though, ab. Many Muslim children attend non-muslim schools too. I think you are making an assumption that if there wasn't a Muslim school to go to, they wouldn't go to school.

jura, if so small a percentage of people attend church services (see OP), it rather looks as if faith schools are failing to 'keep' people, so perhaps, in the long term, we don't need to worry.

Because thatbags many Muslim children attend Muslim faith schools

How do you know "many [Muslim] children will be taught at home" if Muslim schools are closed, ab?

I reckon they, and other children whose parents profess a religious faith, should be taught the faith stuff at home, or in their mosques/churches/synagogues, etc, anyway. That's essentially all a call for secular schools is asking for.

The objection to faith schools by some is their concern of segregation , this is realy the problem which can arise in Muslim schools, close them and many children will be taught at home , this troubles me .

Luckygirl, if as was said earlier in this thread that faith can be taught in the home cannot the opposite apply, a child speaks of Christ and the parent tells the child - load of rubbish, no different to believing in the tooth fairy

Charity from anyone of any religion or none is to be valued. But it is very important that this charity arises from a desire to help others and not from a desire to indoctrinate - love and kindness should be given without strings.

The problem with faith schools is that they teach children faith as fact - that is wrong, because it is not honest.

The teaching of children is a trust that should not be breached.

So I was right, segregation was brought into it because of Muslims , why not say so, Rosesarered was honest and said it, oh that others were as honest when going on about segregation

Iam, what I am against is some schools can avoid being checked

So Rosesarered, take Christian charity but close Christian schools. Are you not feared the Salvation Army will drive the homeless into ghettoes, will segregate them ? Street pastors will brainwash youngsters as they lift them off the pavement or road when they are in a drunken stupor ?

We need more Christian teaching not less in my opinion, not to segregate but to learn we are all equal, that all faiths should be respected , it's known as loving one another , inclusion not exclusion

Yes Annie's, I agree that the emphasis on how medieval we are in the uk in comparison with the enlightened folks of Switzeland sat uneasily with the notion of equality for all

The Majority of Muslims I know personally or as a result of work actively chose either the C of E or R C schools in town for a heir children. They recognised the good quality education and health x Ellen's pastoral care those schools offer. Let's not forget that, or ind ed the other positive contributions the Churches make in wid r society.

I can't see the end of faith or free schools and ever happening, much as I'd like it to so I suggest we all attempt to make the best of what we have and encourage the government to excel isle caution in its moves to remove schools from the support and oversight offered by local authorities. Isolated and segregated families or schools make all know nods of abuse easier

We are talking about schools only. Nobody has mentioned anything else.
The reason that some , including Christians, favour secular schools over faith schools is that we would like children to grow up, questioning, and having an interest in all faiths and also perhaps no faith, in seeing that Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus etc are just the same as them, children, or young people.Also it would stop boys and girls being segregated( Muslim schools)
And just be more enlightened generally.

Luckygirl , I didn't fear non faith aligned schools until this thread , such rubbish which I think comes from fear , segregation and ghettoes ! Still waiting to learn where these ghettoes are

Do we close faith hostels for the homeless ? Do we ban street pastors from helping drunken youngsters keep safe ?

Agree totally LuckyGirl

Close them down , must follow the enlightened people of Switzerland

Annie - there is nothing to fear from schools that are not faith-aligned. Some already exist, and they have as their heart a deep respect for others and for all their views. You do not have to fear that children will be indoctrinated with atheism - on the whole (and I hate to say it) it is religions that have a history of indoctrination!

The national curriculum is very clear about education about all religions - and OfSted is on it like a terrier if this is not happening. They have slipped up at times - ref. Birmingham - but they are on the case now.

We owe it to our children to educate them in an honest way, to instill a respect and love for others and to treat religions with integrity, explaining that they are beliefs held by many and not confusing belief with fact. That does NOT involve telling children what they should believe, be it humanism, agonisticism, atheism or a religious belief. It leaves them free to make a choice as they grow.

With respect, "medieval" needn't necessarily be pejorative.

University of Basel, founded 1460 - is that to be regretted?
Other "medieval" centres of learning include
University of Oxford England founded before1167
University of CambridgeEngland founded 1209-1226
University of St AndrewsScotland founded 1410 - 1413
University of Glasgow Scotland founded 1451