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Religion/spirituality

God is a question, not an answer

(107 Posts)
thatbags Tue 29-Mar-16 06:13:36

Title of essay by William Irwin brought to me by Bo Winegard on Twitter.

Allowing that understanding God as a question rather than an answer is a very good way of putting it, there is no mention in it that I could find on a cursory reading of people like me who don't care one way or the other. I think a lot of people don't understand the concept of suspended belief, where one just doesn't put any effort into believingor doubting something because one doesn't think it is worth any effort. I think my suspension of belief (or doubts about, whichever way you want to look at the question) in gods, has enhanced my life and made it less cluttered up with stuff I don't need.

nigglynellie Thu 31-Mar-16 12:33:48

Well, quite!

Venus Thu 31-Mar-16 10:41:13

niggleynellie

That's it, in a nutshell.

As Dave Allen was known to say, 'May your god go with you.'

thatbags Thu 31-Mar-16 10:29:50

last

thatbags Thu 31-Mar-16 10:29:33

elegran, yes. Exactly.

niggly, what you say in your lasr sentence is essentially what I meant when I said I didn't care about the existence or otherwise of god: it's all speculation so, like, shrug! smile

"So, like, shrug!" is my motto wink

nigglynellie Thu 31-Mar-16 10:03:00

For some people God is a question and for some an answer. It depends entirely on the individual person. Everyone is different, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think religion is a private matter and each to his own. I can't see what there is to discuss particularly as no one can ever definitely know one way or the other until we're dead!!

TriciaF Thu 31-Mar-16 09:42:44

I don't know why people get so worked up about this kind of topic. Either you believe or don't believe. You accept all the teachings, or some, or none. Some people need concrete proof, others rely on faith. A person can't be forced to believe what's not in their nature. But can be forced to behave against their nature.
Some have a mind which accepts the existence of the non-material, others haven't.
My religious belief includes trying to adhere to a certain code of behaviour, but then this applies to many atheists as well.

Elegran Thu 31-Mar-16 08:39:28

thatbags You find the subject an interesting one - what do people think and believe about this man Jesus who has had so much influence on the world , what are the recorded facts and the background history of the place and time where he lived and died, what influences people to see a divine all-powerful hand on the tiller of the universe or to see inexorable forces of nature at work, how have inquisitive minds and empathetic hearts regarded the interactions of gods and humans.

But you don't have a personal interest in the outcome of all those scholarly dissections and passionate introspective searchings, seeing them in the same light as any other thesis or any other account of a writer's innermost feelings.

Is that right?

thatbags Wed 30-Mar-16 22:22:01

I'm sorry that what I have written has been so unclear to some people. The issue of whether gods exist is the only thing I said I don't particularly care about. It is still possible to be interested in how a hypothetical god of the Judaeo-Christian tradition could be thought of while not caring whether he, she or it remains hypothetical or actually exists, which is why I found the OP article interesting.

Just out of curiosity, I'd be interested to know if anyone has a notion of what I'm talking about. Meanwhile I shall go and mix some more philosophical mud. Goodnight, folks!

Anniebach Wed 30-Mar-16 20:53:08

Is it interesting writing about things one doesn't care about ? If one doesn't care about something does it not mean one isn't interested in it?

thatbags Wed 30-Mar-16 20:45:07

Good! ?

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 30-Mar-16 20:35:12

grin I'm sorry if I was tiresome. Lol.

thatbags Wed 30-Mar-16 20:08:37

If you think it's awful, obi, it's clear that you haven"t understood it in the way I have.

jings, don't be tiresome. I wasn't writing about what I don't care about.

Elegran Wed 30-Mar-16 19:28:45

If you define what you are searching for too narrowly because you think you know the answer in advance, you can miss something that you were not aware existed. Looking from side to side shows up unexpected vistas.

obieone Wed 30-Mar-16 19:05:35

thatbags - I find the twitter quote awful

Seek and you will find comes to mind. But if you are going to thwart your own seeking about anything, well I am not sure what to say.

dj - I agree that God is the answer for some and a question for others. Always has been I guess adn suppose.

Anniebach Wed 30-Mar-16 18:52:21

Yes Jingl, not the body which is buried and rots, we are more than that

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 30-Mar-16 18:35:48

Crikey Bags. You can write a lot of words about something you don't care about.

I think you should get a telly.

jinglbellsfrocks Wed 30-Mar-16 18:33:52

Anniebach do you believe in the resurrection of the body? Just out of interest.

I don't.

thatbags Wed 30-Mar-16 18:23:38

Found a lovely succinct explanation: This. Here. Spot on. I wasn't looking for one, btw. I just happened upon this that someone else posted.

durhamjen Wed 30-Mar-16 18:04:04

Pleased I helped you to sort it out, bags.

thatbags Wed 30-Mar-16 17:58:32

I care in the sense of being interested in what people like Irwin and other philosophic types have to say, dj. Like a great many philosophical subjects, it's an interesting one. And as with other philosophical subjects, and ethical ones, and political ones, even scientific ones where we don't know enough yet (add to the list if you care to, anyone), on a personal level I often don't have a definitive answer to the question of what my own personal view is.

Sometimes (quite often in fact), I don't think there is an answer that's simple enough to satisfy me; there's only a limited human fudge at one. Most of the time I think this doesn't matter. When a need to decide something arises, I'll make a decision based on what I know, or think I know, at that point in time.

In the case of religious faith, I guess I've decided that there's no way (to me) of knowing anything for certain in that field so I don't even try. The evidence that's available and understandable to me suggests that gods and religious rules are human inventions. If and when I hear convincing evidence otherwise (that's comvincing to me, not anyone else because others will have different requirements), then I will change tack. Right now and for quite a lot of years already, I find there is enough else to concern myself about, including especially important things like what is good behaviour and what isn't. That, in particular, is far more important to me than whether any gods exist. It makes no difference to my life whether gods exist (remember that I am speaking for myself only and I am not commenting on what is or may be important to someone else), whereas how I behave towards others and how they behave towards me has the potential to make a huge difference to my satisfaction or otherwise with life.

Therefore, as I said, I don't worry about, care about, or feel the need for any gods or religion in my life. Perhaps you feel that being interested in what other people think about the god question is me searching for religion myself. It isn't. I do think there is a kind of spirituality in ethics and philosophy. Spirituality is the wrong word because spirits (gods, angels, etc) are not required, but I think most people will probably understand what I mean. I find that sufficient.

I hope that is a satisfactory answer, dj. If it isn't you can continue to disbelieve me all you like. That won't make any difference to my life either. It would if my nearest and dearest and good friends persisted in not believing what I say. That would worry me but your not believing me doesn't (so don't think this answer belies that; it's written mostly for myself; nice to get one's thoughts sorted once in a while; thank you for the encouragement). I know I am not dishonest and so does everyone who knows me well.

Elegran Wed 30-Mar-16 13:27:39

Exactly, Anniebach

Anniebach Wed 30-Mar-16 13:05:08

I say the Apostle's Creed every day, I am not being economical with the truth,

To say 'I Believe' is speaking the truth because I do believe it is the truth

Elegran Wed 30-Mar-16 12:45:44

Some stray ^s appeared in that post. Apologies.

Elegran Wed 30-Mar-16 12:43:41

Most Christian churches, of all denominations, recite a version of the apostle's creed to affirm their faith and belief. A lot of it cannot be proved as proof is generally understood, but they state that they believe it. Surely they are not being economical with the truth?

It goes:-

"I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord;
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead. The third day he arose again from the dead.
^He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence he shall come to judge the living and the dead.^

^I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy universal Church, the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting."^

"Amen."

obieone Wed 30-Mar-16 12:25:19

All Christians are varied Elegran, so I cant answer that.