Struggling with my Christian belief

It's the belief that counts , facts apparently are not of any significance

Norose4 artificial insemination is NOT virgin birth! The semen has come from a man!

The virgin birth cannot be proved or disproved

I can't get my head around the insipid version of Mary we're always given.

She was unmarried and pregnant in a society which condemned such women to death yet she managed to survive. Then after travelling whilst heavily pregnant she gave birth in a stable, had to escape to and live as a refugee in Egypt, bring up a child who, according to the Gospel of Thomas (one of those not in the Bible), showed off his miraculous abilities in a most irritating and at times dangerous ways and was incredibly arrogant and finally watch him be tortured to death on the cross.

Any women who could survive all that could never have been the insipid 'perfect' woman that men want us to believe.

Nor was Mary Magdalene the epitome of the opposite view of women!

I was brought up a Catholic, I don't practice at all now. My own thoughts are that obviously nobody truly knows what is there for us after death, but if it is a heaven and Hell kind of thing. I think the brownie points will be earned on how you lived your life in relation to others. If you were Kind, helpful, that sort of thing, and not based on how many times you went to Church ir what you really believed in.

That's just my thoughts, I am not saying I am right, how could I? will have to wait and see

I was brought up as a Methodist and I am grateful for its guidance over right and wrong and treating others as we would be treated ourselves. I always found religious belief difficult, though, and I gave it up after my Mother died when I was a young teenager. I am now an atheist. I just cannot believe that our beliefs at the moment of our death will make any difference to what happens to us after death.

I really don't think we should worry about what happens to our children or grand-children after death. They will find their own way. I strongly suspect that it will be neither to Heaven nor Hell but it's a journey that they, like us, will make themselves.

Vampirequeen, your view of the Holy Mother is most strange.

She was married, had no choice but to travel by donkey whilst pregnant, no car! , was a refugee , and she chose to be with her son as he died.

Rather like women in the Middle East

Why strange? I'm saying she had to be a strong, active woman not the insipid, submissive creature that the Church would have us believe.

I have never thought of her as a stupid woman and have never, ever heard the church call her insipid. Some woman are capable of having a strong faith , live hard lives, endure grief yet still be loving.

It's your opinion of her, not mine and not the church

As an atheist I try very hard to respect those who have faith in whatever religion they choose but I am really struggling with some of the illogical claptrap here.
Most of us manage to lead lives of usefulness and kindness with a steady moral compass without the artificial construct of religion, whilst other people purporting to be Christians or Muslims do real harm in the name of their idea of what is right.
I live my life in the best way I can, its the one life I have and when I leave it I hope to have done some good in the world. I will be remembered by those I have met on the way, that's enough for me.
I certainly wouldn't want to be in the Heaven of some of the more sanctimonious posters here, that would be my idea of Hell.

What happened to your kindness Dee?

My thoughts on this are ...... If you are a good person who does good for their fellow man/woman, does not break the law, is kind to animals and everything in general to be an upstanding citizen etc .Then you have a person that goes to church but is mean spirited, beats the spouse, will break the law for their own gain - Who is the better person and deserves their spot in heaven ? I spoke to a very religious friend about heaven and the question of meeting loved ones and being reunited and she said we don't look for the people that went before us as God is the almighty so we are there only to praise and love him. That was a sad thought for me.

I understand what your friend meant and don't think it sad

You can't quantify belief, you either do or you don't. And preaching hell and damnation to the unbelievers is archaic and a thing of the past to scare uneducated peasants. It's all to easy to become indoctrinated on the negative aspects of any religion and if that is thought to be the reason for questioning your faith, then as a thinking person, just walk away. It's that simple.

My old dad used to say that 'this was hell'.

I am not a Christian but if it is love, then all good people who believe in loving ways will be 'saved'.

I understand your worry, I went to an alpha meeting, I was told that if one doesn't become a born again Christian, that person won't go to heaven but a murderer or such like who becomes born again just before death will go to heaven:
My dad was as near to a perfect, honest, kind human being that can I imagine but wasn't a born again Christian, I was told, no he won't go to heaven, I was so upset, I walked out and didn't go back ?

I agree with foxie in that, if your religion is so fundamental and has so taken over your life that you believe your DC and little DGC will go to hell if they don't see things just as you do it is time to take a step back and think again.
Time to seek help from a kind and thoughtful vicar or similar person of faith who is not a fundamentalist.

Don't usually post, just lurk, but want to say that there a wide variety of belief in the Christian church and just as many previous doctrines are now being changed ie regarding slavery and the oppression of women to name but two, so many Christians no longer believe in a place of eternal fire and torment in the after-life. You may find it helpful to talk to someone from a different churchmanship. There is very little we can say for certain - I am an Anglican priest with an honours degree and MA in Theology and I still struggle with my beliefs!

Do not fret! If they adhear to the 10 commandments then they are good people, and will not go to hell, if there is such a place!
I am a baptised Christian, however, I have not been confirmed, as I do not want confirmation just to conform. Does this mean I'll go to hell?
I too have non believing children and grandchildren, and that is their prerogative.

Happgran, we are not born religious we are brought up in something that is the luck of the draw. I was brought up catholic but to hell with that. I made sure my children were entitled to pick their own path and I don't for one minute believe in hell only that " in my fathers house there are many mansions". So don't worry for one second as long as they turn out good people.

Believe in the goodness in humanity and the love of God and Jesus. The rest is just basically man made stories used to control us with fear. After a long struggle with religion I now believe that either: we all die and rot in the ground...end of OR there is a greater being that we can not even begin to comprehend so let's leave the final decisions up to them. There is no way possible that any living person could know or fully understand the enormity of death and the possibility of a life afterwards. Just live your life the best you can and continue to love God and Jesus if you wish but just choose not to believe the ridiculous aspect of heaven and hell.

"They" do say that the only Hell is the one that we build for ourselves here on earth. I think that's probably right. Worrying about the hereafter this way is colouring everything around you and serving no useful purpose, a kindly Father doesn't want to see you worrying in this way. You can only do your best, as can your grandchildren.My youngest daughter has declared herself a pagan, has taken some kind of exam to do with Druids and dabbled in white witchcraft. But, after all, these are the old religions which Christianity incorporated to make it more palatable to barbarians. She is good, kind to a fault and honest - I have no fears for her in the afterlife. We'll be there together, I have no doubt, God sees her heart and those of your grandchildren, I'm certain. That's what he will judge when the time comes.

As a child I was terrified of hell, but as an adult I certainly don't believe in it.

Having read your email made we wonder if people think the same as me. I believe we are in hell now, what is going on around the world and in our own country.
My faith is humanism we believe that it is how we treat people in this world, the kindness we show to others and our respect for nature.
I find that a lot of Christians can be very harsh about a lot of things, such as gays, young people etc. They only see one side of things and are blinkered. Sorry to say my gd has been told many times she will go to hell because of her beliefs.
As my son was murdered it also made me think about my beliefs. I know I will never see him again and cling to his memories.
Sorry if I have offended anybody but this is how I feel.