The Pope

True, he was betrayed , denied and crucified and The Pope isn’t the Second Coming Bridgeit

Jesus was one man against so many,perhaps that would/ could/should inspire The Pope & anyone else who purports to hold Christian beliefs.

Thanks Skye17. looking now.

Yes Aggie, I agree but one man against how many?

What should have been done and still should , is that the people accused are reported to the police , not "dealtwith" secretly . A proper enquiry/trial by the law of the land should take place

What did you want him to do humpty?

annep, this is a really important question and it’s the one that everyone asks (including me – it was a big problem to me when I started looking into Christianity in my 20s).

There’s so much I could say about it, but unfortunately not enough time! I will just say a few things.

1.
The Bible makes it clear that suffering is not generally punishment. I don’t believe that at all. One reason that suffering came into the world at the Fall (when humans rebelled against God) is that they started using the free will that God had given them, so that they could freely turn to him and have a loving relationship with him, to do evil. Most of the suffering in the world is caused by human beings doing wrong things. Another part is caused by illness and by natural disasters such as earthquakes. Christian belief is that these began when the relationship between God and humans was broken, as a consequence rather than a punishment. It does say in the Bible that

“the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time”
(Romans‬ ‭8:22‬ ‭NIVUK‬‬
bible.com/113/rom.8.22.nivuk)

but that there will be a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21:1), where for those who belong to God,

“He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain”‭‭
(Revelation‬ ‭21:4‬ ‭NIVUK
‬‬http://bible.com/113/rev.21.4.nivuk)

2.
If this life is not all there is, things look different. God has all of eternity to make it up to people who have suffered unjustly in this life. He will also judge perfectly, and nobody will get away with wrongdoing - there will be justice (and for those who trust in him, mercy).

3.
Humans tend to feel that God must want us to be happy. But William Lane Craig (a top Christian thinker) suggests that God’s purpose in creating the universe was not just to provide a comfortable home for his human pets. He suggests that God’s priorities may be that each person will come into relationship with him and will become more like Jesus. He may know that suffering is worth permitting as part of creating a world where the maximum number of people will do those things. It may be that he wants us to be happy in this life, but it’s not the most important thing.

4.
As Tim Keller says, the fact that we can’t see God’s reasons for permitting suffering doesn’t mean that there aren’t any.

I hope these two short videos from William Lane Craig on the subject may be helpful.

youtu.be/k64YJYBUFLM (4 minutes)

youtu.be/cxj8ag8Ntd4 (8 minutes)

I also think John Lennox makes some good points in this brief interview.

youtu.be/tmP5WfEiOe0
(7 minutes)

Please feel free to pm me if you wish.

I really admire pope Francis (as a non-Catholic) for his liberal views and observance of (relative) poverty, but I have found his response to the abuse issue extremely disappointing. It's simply not good enough to apologise or say how sad he is, actions speak volumes compared with words, which really are empty of any help.

Most normal adults are not naturally celibate. Some who choose a religious vocation may accept celibacy without too much difficulty but for others it is unnatural and may damage their character and influence their behaviour for the worse.

Yes I know varian , the vow of chastity has nothing to do with physical abuse and nuns were included in a post about celibacy

Please watch the documentary ‘No country for women’ on YouTube.....and also ‘The forgotten Maggies’ and ‘sex in a cold climate’ but make sure you have tissues handy.....

It is not only sexual abuse, but physical and psycholgical abuse perpetuated by nuns, Did you ever see the film "Philomena?". It told a true story which I'm sure was by no means unique.

Have many nuns sexually abused children? Nuns live in communities , nuns with husbands and children wouldn’t work

All religions, but particularly the Catholic church, seem to have a very unhealthy interest in people's sex lives.

If the Pope and others in the Catholic hierarchy learn anything from the exposure of these dreadful abuses perpetuated by priests, monks and nuns, it should be that celibacy is unnatural and should certainly never be compulsory for religious people. Why not make celibacy optional, and lessen the risks of these people abusing children?

Skye17 if God loves people why allow so much suffering of innocent people. We would never punish our children to this extent for disobedience. We would have compassion..
Natural disasters and illness cannot just "enter the world" ??? When I see beauty I know there must be some power who understands love and beauty and goodness. ( my husband insists its all controlled in the brain. Everything originates in the brain). But I cannot equate it with allowing hate and pain.

There is something seriously wrong in an institution where 300 priests in Pennsylvania are alleged to have abused children. It has to have become a culture within that organisation, or some would say cult.

I don't believe the celibacy of itself has anything to do with whether someone is sexually attracted to children. It may be that an organisation that uses so much ritual to attract and control its members creates an unhealthy culture.

Closed institutions are ideal places for abuse of all kinds to take place. Residential care settings for children, young offenders, children with mental or physical health problems have all been places were high levels of abuse take place.

Families are the other obvious place, they're like closed institutions in some ways. I stress, I'm not saying all families and I'm not putting blame on anyone within families where abuse occurs on anyone but the abuser. It's true though, that abuse is more likely to occur where the abuser wields unreasonable levels of power.

Some people, mainly men, are sexually attracted to children. It's a sexual preference, in the same way that some of us love people of our own gender. Being sexually attracted to children may be something the individual is born with but it isn't something they have to act on.

It is claimed The Pope was told of one alleged case. There are some who think this was leaked by traditionalists who do not like Frankie taking the church away from it’s old ways

It is in religions, schools, youth clubs, childrens care homes, family homes,

I personally don’t think celibacy is the reason although it may well be added to by sexual frustrations (of course we have no statistics to say if fathers /grandfathers/ uncles who abuse are in fulfilling sexual relationships or not) I believe celibacy of priests and nuns was brought in for completely secular reasons not by anything handed down spiritually
The latest news I heard today appears to be that the present Pope had knowledge of what was happening in some situations and covered it up obviously if that’s the case more will come out
I don’t know the answers, the Catholic church does not have the monopoly on abuse, it seems to be prevelant and covered up in all religions so can only be about the power opportunity and trust lay people put into these men of importance

Bridgeit, as it does with rapists. I hate saying this but I don’t ever see child abuse ending. The need for power and control is part of the persons nature surely

Good point Annibach I agree.
Personal Inadequacies of the perpetrator are often highly identifiable, it is as much about the power & control abusers feel & asert over their victims that drives this predatory behaviour.

If celibacy is the cause of sexual abuse how come most abuse is carried out by fathers and grandfathers?

I went to a Catholic Primary School and most of the Nuns were no different to any other teachers where some are nice and some were less so. It was an age where corporal punishment was still allowed so you might have had a swift rap over the knuckles with a hairbrush which hurt your pride more than your fingers. There was rumour that you could get the belt but I don't remember anyone actually getting it. It was much better than living at home where the punishment was explosive, erratic and sometimes meant you were kept home to hide the marks. At least you knew what the rules were and what was likely to get you into trouble and 80% of those Nuns were like a caring Mum to me, the other 20 were just a bit tart. When I moved from the Convent to the State Secondary School there were far more sadists that at the Convent.
To me, it is the hypocrisy of the people who were likely preaching purity and goodness under the window that most likely read "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." Then for those who were chosen to be a rescuer of a damaged child to cover it all up was just the worst betrayal. If I hadn't had an education within the Catholic faith, the quote above might seem like something from a Peadophiles Bible.
Sadly, power often seems to pervert but if you have a twisted psyche which allows harm to a child without conscience then the Church, Children's Homes, Education, etc gives you access to those children. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that there has to be a better system for prosecuting/imprisoning/confining those that are identified.

Terri, I don’t think faith has dropped away in Ireland, many stayed away from the Papal Mass as a protest , a friend of mine did but she still attends church.

St.Peter was married but didn’t spend much time with his wife , when Christ said to give up all and follow him did this mean wives too? We just don’t know.

Much will depend on the next Pope, Frankie looked so tired.

St Peter in the beginning was married, as I believe in the days of the early church priests were. Sometime down the line it was decreed that priests should be single possibly so they weren't financially encumbered. Whilst I agree that being married doesn't necessary preclude abuse, and as you have often said Annie most abuse happens in the home, I wouldn't disagree with that. Nevertheless given that most edicts in the church are man made, they didn't come from Jesus himself, but then it seems to me that if the mighty great behemoth of the catholic church had stuck to the essence and purity of his teachings it wouldn't have become the corrupt organisation it has over the centuries. There is a school of thought that suggests that Jesus himself was married anyway and the fact that he is portrayed as a single man is another distortion of the truth. Jewish men of his time didn't remain single. Getting back to the point though, I agree with those who think there needs to be some rethinking on the celibacy matter. There are so many issues set in stone that should be looked at, especially in light of everything that's gone wrong. Pope Francis has been a ground breaking pope in many ways, but still the church needs to go further if it is to survive. One only has to look at Ireland to see how the support has fallen away of late. I can only speak for myself, I was brought up a catholic so I don't have the knowledge of of other denominations, but from my observations of married clergy and the new addition of women priests in other branches of the christian church, I would say what they have would be preferable.