The Pope

My friend, not catholic, went to a catholic school at 11 and hated it because the nuns said she woukd burn in hell. She was terrified.

My ex husband was put in the care of noms in a town in the west country. His mother was unmarried and worked all the hrs she could to give the nuns money for his keep. She also sent him clothes and visited when she she. The visits were always planned and her son was presented to her well dressed and well cared for, however, she made an unexpected visit and it was a different story. She took him way straight away, I think there was an investigation and it was in the papers. She never attended church again. Also my dad was taught and cared for by nuns for a short period and said it was the worst time of his life and how cruel they.

I must admit to a conflict of interest here, as I was brought up Catholic in UK, but left when the then teachings conflicted with my views about contraception.

This Pope is one of the best ever in my view. He's dealing with previously ignored and difficult issues, such as LGBT, cruelty, divorce, is starting a conversation about married priests and so on. He also has a Curia to deal with who are politically quite right wing and resistant to change.

As far as the dreadful abuse goes, it might be an idea for him to put the guilty clerics of all levels into a Vatican institution for the rest of their lives after serving any prison sentence,. They should be made then to understand their vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, the precepts by which St Francis lived, and in straitened living. By that I mean no luxuries, no internet, no contact with the outside world. That way the Church would pay for their keep. And they might find them something useful to do, like farm work to grow food for the poor.

The TV show Call the Midwife showed the work these dedicated women did for their communities, giving up all for others. There were teaching orders too, and they often improved the chances of girls and minorities being properly educated and cared for. There is more to value than condemn, I think.

A RC diocesan priest is paid by his parish so can accept donations . They live in church accommodation as do Anglican priests

Is it right that RC priests don’t get any money apart from what the parishioners give them? I assume the accommodation is free.

Oops, sorry, and Christ has told us want God wants of us

RC priests do not take the vow of poverty Bluebell

It’s good that you know what God thinks and wants Skye!

Yes I do believe formal churches are like businesses look at the buildings from all religions... palaces of gold The Vatican is a huge business with its own country, stamps, soldiers, passports millions of pounds worth of jewellery and you can replicate that with other religions of the world
no one becomes a priest or minister to get rich I was talking about religions as a whole more than individuals but as you bring it up our local priests lives in a beautiful house with his nice car in the driveway and his housekeeper, no reason why he shouldn’t, but I wonder what a vow of poverty actually means.

I went to a convent grammar school with about 10 nuns and 50 ish lay teachers. Some nuns were nice, some a bit tart but the same goes for the lay staff too. And as a family the priest never came knocking for money. After moving to another area, I did hear that the local priest had a ‘close relationship’ with a female parishioner. Glad to be free of the mind control and relieved that the children went to non-church schools.

I agree Skye , but we need to remember more abuse is carried out in the home than anywhere else and by the people who above all others should protect the child, the parents and extended family. All abuse is wrong , I understand the anger against the priests but abuse by a father or grandfather ? What causes them to do this? Too simplistic to dismiss it as evil.

But surely Annie confession and vows of obedience etc are part of your particular church and way of worshipping, not of Christianity?

Our DC all went to the local primary school which just happened to be Catholic and it all seems so complicated! All those saints days, stations of the cross, etc. My Catholic friends seem to like all the rules though. I was brought up in the Baptist church and my grandparents were Quakers. It all seemed so much simpler!

One thing I do not understand though is that Catholics are happy to drink alcohol whilst the ‘low’ churches believe in abstention.

Some more than others.

BlueBelle, I do agree that it’s horrible to see abuse perpetrated by people who are teaching goodness and doing badness. Although it happens everywhere, the people doing it are more hypocritical when they are also teaching others about leading good lives.

However, I’m not sure it is fair to say that all religions are businesses. No one becomes a priest or minister to get rich – they lose financially by it. Very few people become Christians to make money. The ones I know generally give away 10% of their income. Without giving the C of E would not keep going.

It’s true you don’t need a priest to forgive you for doing wrong things. I’m not a Catholic but I believe the teaching is that God forgives you when you confess to a priest.

According to the Bible, you do need God to forgive you for doing wrong things. God hates people hurting themselves and each other and he judges that. (If he didn’t care, he would not be loving. He cares when people he cares about are hurt.) But he has provided a way for everyone who wants forgiveness to have it, through trusting in Jesus. Everyone needs that way, because we have all done wrong things.

I have worked with nuns for over 50 years and have never come across any kind of abuse, only love, respect and kindness towards the elderly they care for. Yes, the abuse scandal is truly awful but we shouldn’t forget the wonderful work done by thousands of priests and nuns throughout the world and for very little reward!

Nfk, I understand your views on helping others etc, but to follow Christ’s teachings for me means the whole lot, love God with all your heart, pray, I go to prepare a place for you, if the world hates you remember it hated me first,

Hope this explains the differences between us ?

Nfk, if only it was that simple, we have to accept the vows of Obedience and the confessional are part of the faith of some. I go at times to confession, not because of forgiveness from a priest but it helps me talk things through. Obedience to the church ? I couldn’t take such a vow.

I’m agnostic by the way. Like a dung beetle knowing there’s something really huge there looming above but unable to comprehend what on earth it could be. The elephant on the other hand may well be able to see the beetle. (This doesn’t mean I believe God is an elephant!)

The commandments and rules whether of Christianity, Islam, Hindus or Pagan are basically the same. Harm none, try to forgive if not forget and be generous and help others where you can. You don’t need to believe in a deity to want to live by these rules.

Its sheer hypocrisy, Annie, that's what I personally object to.
Of course, all humans fall down; that is human nature.
To use a cloak of religion to cover up the most foul deeds is abhorrent, whether I personally believe in God or not.
Much the same as Saville, using his position of trust to gain access to children.

What is the point of condemning things in the Middle Ages ? Waste of time and energy .

I am amused someone who abhores bad deeds wants to blow people up.

Liz, I would be upset if I thought I was upsetting anyone,

I have never said people who do not go to church or are atheists are bad people or claimed all who go to church are good people, we are talking sbout human beings and there are good and not good in all walks of life , I can except this some here cannot.

We do not have to believe in God to be a good person, what I have been trying to understand is why a person who doesn’t believe in God or try to follow the teachings of Christ but are good people condemn those in the church for not living by their faith which the person doesn’t believe in, doesn’t make sense to me , it’s criticising what doesn’t exist

My sympathies are for all the good, honest, caring nuns and priests who knew about the abuse but were obliged by the hierarchy to keep quiet and could do little to stop it.

Again, with many despicable acts that have taken place over the centuries and still taking place, appears the word 'religion'.

Sorry, that should have been “paternalistic”.

Saggi I have held those views for a very long time, but the matter or purgatory was part of a recent programme about faith in the Middle Ages. I was dumbfounded that such a terrible and threatening 'trick' would be perpetrated on grieving and poverty stricken people. I don't know if prayers are still said specifically for this reason now in the Catholic Church. I have no wish to denigrate faith, having met Christians who live the most exemplary lives, but the establishment of the church is so questionable to me in the way it deals with - or chooses to ignore - exploitation, poverty and need.

Although I was brought up a Catholic and went to a number
of convents (where most of the nuns were extremely kind).
I stopped being a Catholic due to the mysoginistic and
patenistic attitude of the clergy in regards to birth control.