Always One?

Remember it takes 2 to have an argument so don't be that second person.

If there are enough of you who feel the same way about this person then.....
* Agree to sit together on the opposite pews so it is noticeable that the congregation is lopsided.
*Approach the vicar en masse with a list of complaints, stating times and things said and done, and inform him that, unless the situation improves after 2 Sundays, it will be forwarded to the hierarchy. If nothing happens then, leave en masse too.
*If he/she starts shouting at one person, then agree to step in and stand together, as a human shield saying nothing, causing her to step backwards- never be the ones to retreat- then turn together and just talk to each other as a group as if nothing has happened. Ignore anything going on behind and crowd together so no one can 'muscle' in.
* Set up a 'by invitation only' facebook group to publicise events your group is involved with. That won't exclude anyone attending, just controlling how you publicise it, as this other person seems to be doing .
* Personally, I think I'd want to have a water pistol in my bag!!!! It would be self defence then if the shouting was in my face. However, any physical touching should be reported as an assault to the police- there will be enough witnesses.

Luckily, I'm an atheist so don't have to put up with church politics but acknowledge it can happen in any group. I do think that the strong, silent and concerted approach is better than confrontation. If he/she ever behaves well, on occasion, you can comment how lovely it has been to chat today with a beaming ( forced! ) smile - positive re-enforcement.

The Church of England recognises bullying and some Dioces have proceedures for dealing with this already in place.
Maybe asking the Vicar who your Safeguarding or Harrassment Officer is in your Church, might encourage the Vicar to be more proactive, themselves, in your situation.
Good Luck

I think this is the vicar's job. He needs to take this woman aside and tell her she is upsetting other people with her behaviour. So it isn't personal, perhaps you, along with two or three others who agree, go to see him together. It isn't right that anyone feels like leaving, or feels intimidated by anyone else.

I've just had a mischievous thought..............perhaps the bully and the vicar are enjoying some after service activities! ?? Just saying!

Speak to your vicar & PCC, & inform them that if this individual is allowed to continue to carry on this way that you - & probably a lot of others will be finding another place of worship.
I would sound out others who may have had her treatment too. Then you need to stick to it & if nothing improves find another church.
You cannot let her carry on this way. I am no longer a churchgoer but I do know how situations like this can cause huge problems. Good luck!

I’m so glad I’m agnostic. Church politics are as bad as the real thing and a true Christian wouldn’t treat others the way this lady is.

Why does she hold a second key? Change the lock.
Sounds as though she is mentally challenged. Surely if enough of you have problems with her you can all approach her, all approach the Vicar, all boycott the church or go to someone higher up.
I have to say when I was young and joined Christian Youth Fellowship they were the most unfriendly cliquey lot and I didn't last there for long. I Expected to be warmly welcomed!

Don’t speak to the vicar, as you’ve tried that once already. Put the issues in writing.

List everything that you can quite specifically, and then end very nicely, by asking that if he feels the matter is out of his hands then to whom should you write next? If you can put your letter in an email then so much the better because then you have proof absolute that the vicar has seen your list of problems.

I am appalled that, for whatever reason, the vicar does not at least challenge the bullying behaviour . I can understand them wanting to include everyone, not cast anyone out etc, but bullying under any circumstances is totally unacceptable and there is never a reason to justify it - whatever the background, personal circumstances, familial or social relationships, environment, financial contributions etc it will always be wrong. I have no faith myself but would give 100% support that people like yourself that do have that belief should have a safe place to go, and your church should be a safe place not a place of torment and dread....your vicar needs to be made aware (or more aware if choosing to ignore) as your God would want you to feel safe and content in one of his many homes. If the vicar refuses to speak to the bully, explore their reasons then tell them how it is not OK to continually upset other members then go over his head to somebody higher up in the church hierarchy - go to the very top if you have to and garner as much support as you can from other members...a letter signed by the majority of a congregation may carry more weight. Some churches have suffered a big decline in numbers of people attending, some have been forced to close...it would be a shame if your beloved church found itself threatened by a massive reduction in numbers and closure if people were prepared to say how unhappy membership has become, how they go for friendship and faith and do not expect to be threatened or yelled at. Even if this bully is financially contributing a lot to the church this should not influence the vicar in not challenging the bullying...you should not be able to buy your way to the seat next to God and all that - I thought all gods loved rich and poor alike and if someone donates to a cause it should not buy them any preferential treatment...I wouldn't expect to dictate to a vet how to treat an animal just because I donate to the PDSA!

I really hope you can find a way to resolve this and once again be happy and content at your church. You should look forward to attending services, events, groups not dread them, be fearful of verbal assaults or being physically threatened, you should feel safe and loved there not intimidated.

Some churches did nothing about clergy offending against children or the vulnerable. Point out to the church that this is also a subject they cannot ignore, bullying, threatening, putting others down, making people feel bad, trying to control everything and always wanting your own way is not very religious, not charitable and not acceptable.

Do you have other members of the congregation who are prepared to stand with you? If so then the group can all sign a letter of complaint addressed to the Bishop, you could show this to the Vicar and state your case. If this fails, send the letter to the Bishop and change churches.

Glue your notice on the front and watch her try to remove it ! When she erupts take the opportunity to put her at long last in her place and then have a go at the vicar or have a word with his wife maybe ? perhaps not the best advice but you need to be made really cross so as you can let rip with the injustice of it all. x

Her behaviour is so extreme and directed at so many people it does sound as if she has a personality disorder or a mental health issue. You have tried all sorts of different ways to deal with it to no effect so it is probably intractable. We had a similar situation in our Quaker meeting with an attender with mental illness. What would we be as Quakers if we could not include a person who was so severely disabled by his condition? These may be the considerations your vicar is bearing in mind when he refuses to exclude her. To bear with her may be something that Christ asks of you. However constant ministering by this person reduced the spiritual depth of our meetings for other attenders. It is hard to weigh up competing needs. I must admit to becoming irritated in meeting myself which is not a loving or suitable state of mind. In the end it resolved itself when the man left off his own bat in anger because issues he thought important were not being taken up in the way he wanted.

Everyone should ignore her completely, then perhaps she might realise her behaviour is not acceptable. I knew I woman rather like this, she had a mental illness, no excuse for her behaviour, but she was very pedantic about things,how she wanted them.

I'm not sure leaving is the answer in this sort of situation. Depending on the denomination, is there a constitution, group of elders or deacons or some form of leaders meetings whereby this could be raised seriously but without looking like a vendetta?
Otherwise, you probably need a small group to make a formal appointment with the vicar to discuss this. He has a responsibility to ensure everyone is treated with respect in the church and deal with this issue seriously.
I'm sure your church will have formal procedures and policies- financial, H&S, child protection, etc.
If necessary, formal procedures are needed regarding who has access to different areas, notice boards etc and who has authority to agree notices.
This is not trivial and, unchecked, can lead to serious issues.
If the vicar won't tackle it, you will need to go higher up the chain. Let him know you are willing to do this as an indication of how serious it is.
In the meantime, stand up to her firmly but discreetly ( if possible,).
Many years ago a group of us had to leave the church we attended as there were financial and other irregularities ( mainly by the pastor). That church had no formal structure and no accountability.
Committees and policies may seem like unnecessary distractions but can actually be used to keep order, prevent bullying and protect everyone.
Hope you get it resolved

I'm a bit late here, am not a Christian, but have lived in villages all my life, and have good friends who are Christians. I'm pitching in here because it seems to me that if you don't want to fuss (and yes, sometimes one is not in a good place to do that) then you can approach this a bit differently.
If you have a car / good public transport, you can do what a couple of good friends of mine have done regularly most years: simply attend a service at another church, as part of their Christian journey. You don't have to be formal - just pitch up and watch what goes on.
A Friend (actually a Quaker & a friend) would make a point of going to at least 4 different church services every year on her own - all Christian, but all sorts, and had interesting observations on the character of different churches & congregations from evangelical to Catholic and back through all the variations.
You don't have to tell anyone, but if you want to, tell your friends that you are going to attend another church one or two Sundays just to observe the service. All church services are open to everyone (otherwise they can't be a designated place of worship)
It will give you thought, and maybe help you come to another way of handling this.I am not sure how to put this, but I wonder if praying in a different place will give you a different perspective?
I do hope you can sort this out - and I wonder if you moving away just for a week or two will give others pause for thought?

Awful person. Change the lock & dont let her have access to a key. I also agree you should take it hgher. You shouldn't have to leave your church

Corryanna, I really sympathise with you. It's people like this that get church-goers a bad name - we all get tarred with the same brush.

Some years ago we had a new vicar who caused so much trouble and heartache in our lovely church that most of the parishioners left and went to other churches. Many of us wrote to the Bishop who dutifully replied to us, but did nothing. Just recently this same vicar has been in national newspapers because he has been abusing his wife!

I feel the clergy really stick together when there is any dispute - just as you are not getting the backing of your vicar.

I know it's very hard, but your best course of action is to 'vote with your feet' and find another church to worship in.

The following Sunday in the sermon the Minister mentioned that Jesus had welcomed Children and without Children coming to Church and being made welcome they would probably not attend as adults.
She had a face like a skelped bum.

It is truly amazing how often this happens, one of my fond memories of church going in childhood was all the adults arguing over my head. First of all I reckon you have to have one more try with the Vicar on your own, ask him outright if the lady has a problem that causes her to do this, say whatever he tells you will go no further and that you must know as you feel you will have to leave the church as you find it so distressing. If you have no joy you can then either write to the Bishop, go somewhere else, see what others are prepared to do. With regards to the notice, do you have a village shop that would let you put up a notice, or could you somehow get as many people online, or pass messages by word of mouth. Very difficult for you and I am very sorry this is a horrible situation to be in.

Why on earth would you attend a church (or any spiritual place of worship) if every visit might put you on collision course with Nasy Nora?
Round up your like minded pals, go to another church, and vote with your feet.
You are, as you stated, no longer happy there, so what have you got to lose?

We have a Woman in our Church who is very opinionated and not keen on Children, we have a lot of families in the congregation.
After the service the Children are allowed to play together at the opposite end of the hall to the grown ups. Quietish !!!
One Sunday a family with a toddler who was running between peoples feet fell over, this woman ran over to my Grandson at the opposite end of the hall grabbed him by the arm and started screaming at him that he had pushed over the baby and berated all of the Children loudly.
Silence in the hall, I walked up to her grabbed her arm firmly, shook her and gave her a right talking to.
She looked around for support and found everyone had turned their backs on her.
She scuttled off and things went back to normal, she then had the neck to turn up here 4 days later asking to borrow my keys, then complained to the Kirk Session that I would not lend them to her.
Thick skin, more like a Rhinocerous hide.

I really feel for you and your situation. I think there is nearly always someone like this is most groups, a bully. I have found management (vicar) or others tolerate them as they do a lot of work for them or they are useful in some other way. It can be very unpleasant being around this sort of behavior. We have this in our group and I must say I dread going at times. We have good friends there but it is very unpleasant at times. good luck, wish I had a magic wand to wave. I am considering not going as often as I used to and doing other things of interest that bring joy and happiness.

Sorry lost you not li8st you. Fat finger Friday!

This person is making you miserable. Go to another Church. Someone will surely miss you and ask why you are no longer attending. They may not lose the bully but they will have li8st you unless they address the bully's behaviour.

Do you have a way of showing your vicar these messages, perhaps on a laptop or smart phone? The bully might not care what folk think of her, but he might. Although we are not his immediate congregation, the women here all sound Christian. If that doesn't inspire him to tackle the problem, the many suggestions to go over his head might to the PCC or bishop.
I wish you the best of luck.