Religeous intolerance

I couldn’t disagree more - all religions are not equal. They are not equal in how they treat women, gay people, disabled, people and poc for one thing. But it’s not even as simple as one religion having better standards than another but about how the values of different religions measure upto the values of the society in which children are being brought up. Beliefs about blasphemy for example need to be examined ( as I think this teacher was doing) in the context of freedom of speech and what that means. It also means examining what type of behaviour is acceptable ( never mind legal) if you believe someone has blasphemed your religion - beheading, shooting?

Alegrias1. I understand and in many ways support your argument. But - religious beliefs are integral. Are you saying that Muslim children should have their beliefs ignored? What happens at Ramadan where many are fasting. Currently, schools make allowances to accommodate that

All those things you have written are true Suzie but none of them set one religions teaching's above another. If a teacher, for the sake or argument, shows a class a cartoon that one specific religion finds inherently offensive, then that teacher is automatically setting one religion's standards above another's by saying we need to look at this, even though you find it blasphemous, because our liberal western values say it's OK.

And I don't believe that any school has any right to undermine what a child's parents have given them as a belief system, however we disagree with it. And if anyone in any school had led me to believe that their belief system was better than mine, that would have been wrong. So it has to work both ways.

I'm afraid that I believe that religious beliefs are not even "a little add on" to understanding society and have no place in education.

Understanding the role of religion in society historically is essential to understanding society today. Religion and religious beliefs are entrenched in all cultures. Good luck with teaching Merchant of Venice without explaining why the Jews were so hated. And understanding Irish history right up to the present day involves discussing and understanding the differences between the two major religions there and issues of power, hatred and doctrinal differences. You can’t even understand how state education came about without understanding the role of religion. As for apartheid and understanding that evil, you need to know the role of the Dutch Reformed Church. And try explaining about the historical inequality of women without reference to doctrinal issues around contraception, abortion and divorce? Religion and religious beliefs aren’t a little additional add on to understanding society and imo no child’s education is complete without understanding that there’s more to the way the world works than their fundementalist ( of whatever religion) parents want them to know

JaneJudge

I think Religious Studies should be studied as well and the moral and community issues surrounding that should still be taught. Isn't this an example of why?

Yes !

Islam also teaches against the taking of a life. Is there leave to pick and choose which parts of the Quran Muslims will obey, or are the death threats just sabre rattling?

Alegrias1 Any of you think that when you say "an apology should be enough" that you have no concept of how upset these children are and how offensive this is to their parents? And that you are minimising the impact of this and telling the upset parents that their anger doesn't matter?
If something deeply offensive to Christians (or any other religion) were paraded in class do you think we would have the same outcome, demonstrations and death threats? No we wouldn't. Everyone else has to take it on the chin and accept that we have freedom of speech. They would not threaten to kill the person who offended them because most religions teach 'thou shalt not kill!

I think Religious Studies should be studied as well and the moral and community issues surrounding that should still be taught. Isn't this an example of why?

I understand personally regarding discrimination and I still think there should be an investigation within the school and this shouldn't happen again. I am aghast the teacher and his family is being police protection, how on earth can anyone quantify that?

Suzie I am genuinely baffled as to why people think any subject needs religion in it, except religious studies. Seriously, I'm not being argumentative. OK, I understand that if you are teaching Scottish history you have to teach the covenanters, and that requires mention of religion. If you are teaching the Partition of India you have to mention Hinduism and Islam. You can teach The Merchant of Venice and explain how Shakespearean England regarded Jews. But that doesn't require a discussion about the philosophy of the religion, what people think of it and how it affects us today.

Its not the place of a school, or education, or some teacher that a parent has never met, to try to influence a person's belief systems. Don't mention it at all. Stick to fact, not myths.

Again - this is why I stay off the religion boards.....

Alegrias I have absolutely no idea how you could teach a variety of subjects without bringing religion into it- many works of literature, history ( really ?) , PHSE. And the children were upset ? Really ? Not encouraged by their parents or the men at the gate? When white children shunned black children, they learned it from their parents. Their parents were wrong and schools were the only hope of some progress.

My thoughts exactly Sago.

Some of the protesters have come from other areas. It was ironic that one of them said that the school should respect other cultures.

Any of you think that the head teacher suspended this teacher because he thinks he's a dope who doesn't understand the basics of his job? i.e. how to teach religious studies without profoundly upsetting the members of his class?

Any of you think that you don't actually get a say in how children of other parents should be educated when it comes to religion? Distasteful though you might think their indoctrination into a religion is, you don't get to try to change that by saying that all children deserve to be informed about other religions?

Any of you think that when you say "an apology should be enough" that you have no concept of how upset these children are and how offensive this is to their parents? And that you are minimising the impact of this and telling the upset parents that their anger doesn't matter?

Any of you think that the Head Teacher is doing what needs doing and isn't influenced by the mob at his gates at all?

No, didn't think so.

This is why religion has no place in schools.

I agree with teaching children about the various religions, but it should be possible to do this without bringing in actual examples of blasphemy in visual form. That's like showing 'The Life of Brian' which many Christians find offensive. It's not necessary or appropriate. Explain that most religions dislike being mocked but that due to freedom of speech it is something that often happens, sometimes with serious consequences.

An excellent well written article Meryl thank you for providing the link.

I agree eazybee he should have have had the guts to stand up to these people telling them that the matter will be investigated and their demands for the staff member to be dismissed were unacceptable.

I hope the Head teacher is investigated. He doesn't deserve to stay in post.

I feel heartily sorry for the teacher. How on earth can he now go about his business without fear ? Thoroughly shocking !

A voice of reason from a Muslim commentator.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9408385/Batley-cartoon-Pandering-mob-disaster-writes-DR-RAKIB-EHSAN.html

I agree suzie, children have the right to be informed about all religious and non religious beliefs and practices.
For children growing up in faith groups that exclude or denigrate other faiths/or none, that’s especially important.

There’s a difference between studying a specific religion and religious studies. I don’t know exactly what was being taught but it is being said it was a lesson about freedom of speech and blasphemy. I think an awareness of all major religions is to be encouraged in schools - children should have the right to be informed about other religious beliefs and practices and all the more so if they come from a religious family who believe it’s their way or no way.

This mob want him sacked for goodness sake. Full of righteous indignation. The head should have done the usual ‘I’m sorry if you are upset, I’m now going to look into this and will let you know the outcome. Meanwhile if any parents ( code for not the rent a mob) have any particular concerns please send them to me in writing’

Well said AGAA4. It's reasonable for a formal complaint to be made to the school and just as reasonable for that complaint to be dealt with accordingly.

Necessitating police protection for this teacher is outrageous and those making death threats need to be identified and charged.

Thanks JaneJudge for posting the information about the teaching of R.E. In the absence of Muslim schools, many parents elect to send their children to faith, rather than secular schools on the basis pastoral care and behaviour management is more in tune with their expectations.

I’m another who agrees the teacher was unwise/naive/ill informed or any combination but death threats? Police protection, outrageous. He , his family and loved ones must be terrified. The teacher in France was beheaded.

Here in Belgium R.E. is obligatory in Secondary Schools, but, when you enrol your child you fill in which religion you wish them to study. As long as there are 2 pupils a specialised teacher will be appointed.
My DD studied the Protestant religion and at times it went from 7 pupils to 3.
A friend is a Protestant religion teacher and goes to various schools in his area.
Surely religion classes should not be one size fits all as that is impossible.
Here we have Morale classes for those who do not wish to study religion and that is mainly about behaviour etc.
I would be interested to know how many of the protesters had children at the school and why the protest was allowed when the one for the murdered girl was treated with so much violence.

Most fair minded people would have been upset by what they see is an insult to their religion but a sincere apology and a reprimand from the head should have been enough.

These people are extremists and have no place in a society that abhors threats of violence.