Religeous intolerance

It is right to introduce children to religious criticism and the principle of free speech. Introduction to free speech should be appropriate to the age of the children, which it generally is.

The Muhammad cartoon shown to a class of children some of whose parents are intolerant of any perceived slur against the Holy Prophet was misjudged ; fundamentalist parents from any ethnic background are likely to make trouble for the school unless the teacher is reticent about known triggers such as is that cartoon.

alegrias I suspect, like me you are an atheist.

I do not believe that a single deity exists, so looking at this issue from my position it seems quite extraordinary that a deity would be offended at an image of itself. However if that is what people like to believe, then so be it, but I absolutely draw the line when someone’s belief in a particular deity impinges on my or anyone else’s life.

Galaxy

Again who decides what is offensive.

If people are being beheaded and killed for showing a picture you can be pretty sure that someone is finding that picture offensive. We might think that the people who are offended are completely bonkers, but that's not the point, the point is that a teacher did something that is still very contentious and he did it surely knowing it would upset people.

BTW - I don't think any of us have the right not to be offended. I don't think protesting at a school gate is acceptable. The point is that something was done that was going to cause community unrest, and he should have known better.

This is an interesting discussion Suzie et al. Before I go further apologies to anyone I might offend, that isn't my purpose...

Why does religion have to come into everything? It makes no difference in my day to day life and the less we talk about it in schools the better, except maybe in a historical context. I don't know how to deal with children's divergent beliefs in classrooms because I'm not an educationalist. But schools are about learning and education IMO, not about comparative belief systems.

And I accept we don't know the context for the introduction of the cartoons in this case. But seriously, who in their right mind would show a group of children a picture that has in itself caused murder to be committed. We may think that the people committing that murder are completely in the wrong - I do, of course - but doing something to spark that off again is just beyond belief.

Its not clever or striking a blow for freedom and toleration to show children a picture which they find inherently offensive. Using pictures in a book to depict how a tolerant society operates is different.

Again who decides what is offensive.

Apparently it was the police that made the decision to place the teacher concerned under protection. I wonder if he’ll ever be safe?

Tbf we have no idea what the Union is doing locally - if they are being low key, this could be good thing as long as the teacher is being supported.

In a tolerant and reasonable world, the parents would contact the head, asking if the teacher appreciated the offence that he had given and request that he should be made aware, apologise, learn the lesson and carry on.

But it seems that tolerance and reason is in short supply.

If I was the head and I felt that the teacher had simply made an error of judgement, I would do just that and stand my ground.

Bullies must not be tolerated.

^ We must not tolerate any dictats handed down by any community. This is the UK and we must make sure we all live in a free and, above all, tolerant society.^. As I said upthread, it’s too late to try and shove that one back in its box and keep the lid on, no matter what community is involved!

Gwyneth

The teaching unions have been unusually quiet

Terrified of upsetting anyone. Eggshells and treading springs to mind!

Just been watching a discussion about this on Jeremy Vine and apparently the lesson was about blasphemy so, although he no doubt regrets it now, he did, I believe, have a valid reason for showing the cartoon. I’ve seen the original cartoon ( I assume this is the same one) and it really is benign. I’ve also seen the crowd outside the school and they have, quite obviously, been ordered/instructed to attend by community leaders. It’s this that causes me concern. We must not tolerate any dictats handed down by any community. This is the UK and we must make sure we all live in a free and, above all, tolerant society.

The teaching unions have been unusually quiet?

Galaxy

And who gets to decide that's the problem. So you have decided that books depicting same sex relationships are ok (which I agree with obviously) but that questioning a religion isnt. Giving anyone that power over speech is dangerous. Is it just schools? Is it ok for me to say I find the catholic teachings in relation to women laughable.

Exactly - who decides? Those who cause most trouble?

And who gets to decide that's the problem. So you have decided that books depicting same sex relationships are ok (which I agree with obviously) but that questioning a religion isnt. Giving anyone that power over speech is dangerous. Is it just schools? Is it ok for me to say I find the catholic teachings in relation to women laughable.

This looks like a reasonable summary with useful links

LGBT lessons: Schools told they can choose what to teach www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47870610

Alegrias1

I can see the issue you are bringing up about same sex families etc. Suzie If schools want to discuss facts and the accepted norms of today's society, as part of science or any other lesson, and parents or children object to that because of their religion, then the school should not allow religious prejudices and anti-science to prevent the discussion.

But, if a school or one of its employees goes out of their way to do something that is inherently inflammatory to a particular religion or belief system, as a way of discussing the differences between religions, that is over-stepping the mark.

If these parents had been protesting against having depictions of same sex families in school books, for instance, then the headmaster would not have supported their complaint, I expect.

Galaxy I wouldn't have any discussion of religion is the classroom. But you probably guessed that

But I honestly don’t think you can divide issues up as neatly as that. What about discussions on the development of the rights of women in society for example? I also think you maybe overstating the behaviour of the teacher as ‘going out of the way’. I accept that amongst the Muslim community there are a hard core of fundamental extremist looking for something to be ‘offended’ at and if they win this one, then what?
As for how the same sex issue was dealt with a couple of years ago, I think some heads were hung out to dry - I’ll go and read up on it before I say more.

I'm all for teaching Greek myths at school. They're fabulous.

No idea which cartoon this teacher posted. I'm not on the side of the baying mob but why show this cartoon? Is it an integral part of the curriculum?

As for parents who caused such a fuss for same sex parents in books. Just ignorant.

I can see the issue you are bringing up about same sex families etc. Suzie If schools want to discuss facts and the accepted norms of today's society, as part of science or any other lesson, and parents or children object to that because of their religion, then the school should not allow religious prejudices and anti-science to prevent the discussion.

But, if a school or one of its employees goes out of their way to do something that is inherently inflammatory to a particular religion or belief system, as a way of discussing the differences between religions, that is over-stepping the mark.

If these parents had been protesting against having depictions of same sex families in school books, for instance, then the headmaster would not have supported their complaint, I expect.

Galaxy I wouldn't have any discussion of religion is the classroom. But you probably guessed that

Parents of pupils have a perfect right to question the content of any lesson by making a complaint to the Headteacher and asking for an investigation.
For self appointed representatives of a community to organise a protest outside a school is totally unacceptable, and for it to necessitate the teacher and his family receiving police protection is shameful.
The Headteacher should not have made his public apology until after the lesson, its content, and its relation to the RE curriculum had been fully investigated. I am not sure that the teacher should even have been suspended, unless it was for his own protection. The Head's conduct as well as that of the teacher needs investigation, as does that of the community 'leaders'.

Assume = same sex obvs

Galaxy

I think I probably agree Alegrias. But I definitely think if constraints are to be put on discussion of religion then we should not allow any discussion of religion in classrooms as it isnt a discussion at all. I have a friend who has a family member who believes the earth is flat, when the child brought this up in a science lesson the teacher discussed the scientific reality. The family member was furious.

But I think it’s more complex than this. What about the children’s books depiction assume sex family group ? This became an issue and we saw the same scenes outside of schools. It’s a religious issue as to its acceptability.

I think I probably agree Alegrias. But I definitely think if constraints are to be put on discussion of religion then we should not allow any discussion of religion in classrooms as it isnt a discussion at all. I have a friend who has a family member who believes the earth is flat, when the child brought this up in a science lesson the teacher discussed the scientific reality. The family member was furious.

Please GN authorities: amend the spelling of this thread's title from "religeous" to "religious". It offends my pedantic sensibilities.

We used to get Social Education in the Stone Age when I was at school. Or Modern Studies.

Giving religion its own subject in schools maintains its dubious claim to importance in a 21st Century educational context. My view, I know many will disagree.

Alegrias1

In my view, Religious Education has no place at all in any modern curriculum. You can talk about equality issues all you like but RE should just be left out. Unless we're going to be teaching Greek Myths and the stories of the Nordic gods as options for belief as well.

See, this is why I stay off the religious threads...

But what was the context in which the issue was being covered? Yes I know, pesky facts.