Religeous intolerance

In my view, Religious Education has no place at all in any modern curriculum. You can talk about equality issues all you like but RE should just be left out. Unless we're going to be teaching Greek Myths and the stories of the Nordic gods as options for belief as well.

See, this is why I stay off the religious threads...

Galaxy

I think if we are at a situation where discussion of religion is curtailed then we should stop discussing all religion in schools. I would say we would need a complete separation of state from religion in that case. Not that that has worked particularly well in France. I have serious concerns about being unable to question religion it's very unhealthy. This applies to all religions, as a woman I find most religions beyond words to be honest.

The problem is, isn’t it, that how can children be given a full education without addressing issues that are fundamental to so many religions. I want all children ( boys and girls) to be given the tools to question issues of equality around sex, sexual orientation, racism, ableism and so on and how you do that without mentioning religious and cultural beliefs is beyond me. If we start by giving religions a special status and exempting it, where do we then go? This is about extremism not Islam per se and all extremists hate the very idea of freedom of speech or thought whatever they might pretend otherwise .

The teacher was incredibly stupid, but this sort of knee jerk mob reaction by parents at the gates of a school has happened before in response to some aspect or other of the national curriculum that has been seen as unacceptable to ethnic minority parents. We have let ourselves come too far down the road to restore the situation now to any kind of tolerance and common sense. I note that in the French incident, the teacher had said that his Muslim pupils might like to close their eyes before he showed the images purported to be of the prophet. If the teacher here had done that he would no doubt have been staring at a whole classroom with their eye closed! I expect the head teacher spends his days walking on eggshells, but he wants his a**e kicking for not supporting a member of his staff.

I don’t have the answer Pamela but this isn’t it. What I think can be safely assumed is that extremists on both sides are now exploiting this fully. I don’t even know what the teacher was teaching in terms of the national curriculum. I’m not taking sides except the side of due process.

I’m old enough to remember the sights of white people shouting, spitting etc ( is that a mob?) at little children trying to enter newly desegregated schools in certain southern states. Should we have just said, oh it’s inflaming the white community, we’d best stop desegregation.? I know that’s not a perfect comparison but hopefully you get my drift.

I think if we are at a situation where discussion of religion is curtailed then we should stop discussing all religion in schools. I would say we would need a complete separation of state from religion in that case. Not that that has worked particularly well in France. I have serious concerns about being unable to question religion it's very unhealthy. This applies to all religions, as a woman I find most religions beyond words to be honest.

I usually stay off the religious threads because my views on religion would be pretty offensive to many on here. But this time I’ll make an exception.

I have no idea why Muslims get so offended by the cartoons in question, but they clearly do and anyone doing anything to inflame that offence needs their head examined.

The protesters are IMO completely over-reacting but anyone could have seen it coming and the purpose for showing these cartoons completely escapes me. If it was a discussion about blasphemy, did he have to show the thing that many of the pupils in his class would think was blasphemous? You and I might not find them offensive, but they clearly do, yet on he went. Whether or not he should be sacked remains to be seen, but I wouldn’t want someone with such a tenuous grasp of the impact of anti-religious imagery teaching children RE. (Actually I would prefer no-one was teaching RE, but that's a whole different discussion.)

The revolution will not start in a classroom in Batley. If we want to respect everyone’s views we have to have some give and take, and this is not how to do it.

( Hard hat on )

Is every gathering of protesters- mob rule ?

*SusieWoozie’
The trouble with posting is that unless you write an essay then one doesn’t always get it right.
I should have gone into it in more detail.
The school has done what it can in removing the teacher from the arena. That will be a first step. Considering the furore it would have been difficult for the person to stay in situ.
Now an enquiry will begin to establish the whys and wherefore of the situation.
I would have thought that if the teacher was teaching religion he/she should have known that images of the prophet were sacrilege to the Muslims so something has gone wrong somewhere and it needs to be discovered where.
The school has apologised to it’s Muslim community, I presume, to calm the community down whilst the investigation progresses. I can’t see what else could have been done but it doesn’t seem to have appeased them at all.
Perhaps you have the answer? I don’t.

I’m another who completely agrees with tickingbird and suzie. Every time I see something like this has happened I feel worried. I don’t agree with apologies, I think it actually makes the situation worse, because if someone apologises it says that wrong was done.

I agree with your post at 8.52 tickingbird I fail to understand why this teacher showed the cartoon as he must have been aware of the possible consequences.
However there is no excuse for the behaviour of the protesters. They should have spoken to the school about their concerns and ensure appropriate action taken.

tickingbird and suzie yes absolutely agree. This is very worrying and mob rule seems to have prevailed. I’m also surprised that the head teacher appears to have given no support to a member of his staff and condemned his actions before any kind of inquiry has been carried out re the context. For once I think Gavin Williams was right in his comments this morning. It’s also extremely concerning that the teacher has been named.

ElaineI

I don't know why he chose to show this cartoon given what happened in France even if the child lied. Some things, regardless of the UK having free speech etc and regardless of what anyone else thinks is right or wrong, you just don't go there and now his life is probably in danger and he needs protection. What a stupid senseless thing to do!

Do you have access to the full facts of the case do you? Sorry for sarcasm but really ...
I suppose you think that only heterosexual families should feature in children’s stories in case any religious fundamentalists ( of any kind) get upset. Strewth.

Mob rule.
It’s appalling.

I don't know why he chose to show this cartoon given what happened in France even if the child lied. Some things, regardless of the UK having free speech etc and regardless of what anyone else thinks is right or wrong, you just don't go there and now his life is probably in danger and he needs protection. What a stupid senseless thing to do!

PamelaJ1

*ticking bird*✔️
Of course the teacher should have known better but it is done now. It seems the appropriate action is being taken and apologies have been made.

The sort of action the parents and rent a crowd are demonstrating makes me wonder if tolerance and forgiveness are words that have any meaning in the Muslim religion.

What appropriate action is this then? Hanging him out to dry without due process?

*ticking bird*✔️
Of course the teacher should have known better but it is done now. It seems the appropriate action is being taken and apologies have been made.

The sort of action the parents and rent a crowd are demonstrating makes me wonder if tolerance and forgiveness are words that have any meaning in the Muslim religion.

Galaxy

The fact that people think that there ate certain things that shouldn't be mocked is do terrifying to me.

Absolutely - and then if you factor in the actual truth of what happened.... oh wait a minute, we don’t even know but let’s apologise anyway.

This is an interesting link explaining why Religious Studies should be included in the IB:

www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2010/12/five-reasons-why-religious-studies-must-be-in-the-english-bacc-by-a-top-rs-teacher

I remember when I did RS at school it covered the four main religions (Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism and Islam) and contemporary moral issues and how that may conflict with religion. I remember I got in trouble for doing a project on the apartheid in South Africa but one of my relatives was working out in Africa on mission (also controversial) and was very passionate about it.

I have no idea what the cartoon is though or why it is so offensive. I'm assuming it isn't like the life of Brian

So terrifying that I cant type apparently.

Thank you suziewoozie

I have mixed feelings about the showing of these cartoons

The fact that people think that there ate certain things that shouldn't be mocked is do terrifying to me.

Apparently he is a RE teacher and I should imagine he was giving a lesson regarding the furore following the Charlie Hebdo cartoons. I don’t know why he decided to show the cartoon. Possibly to show how benign it is. In Islam it is forbidden to view the prophet BUT this isn’t the prophet. There are many cartoons of men in turbans - think of Arabian Nights, Ali Baba etc. It is only when someone says “this is a cartoon of Mohammed” that it becomes a problem.

It’s a dangerous road to go down when we seek to pander to the mob. Religious sensitivity is one thing but a man’s life in danger because of a cartoon? There’s no excusing it. The protesters should have been dispersed and threatened with fines for congregating during the pandemic.

If people want to live in the UK, surely they must accept that we are a liberal society, and should understand what that means in practice. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply in instances like this.

Here’s the story re the beheaded teacher

Samuel Paty: French schoolgirl admits lying about murdered teacher www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56325254

And annie we don’t know but that won’t stop the knee jerkers

Why did he show the cartoon ?