I wish that I had a Faith

LRavenscroft that’s a really good point you make.
I’m not a churchgoer but think the Christian message isn’t bettered by any other religion.
I like the Quaker thing of sitting in silence tho, better than anything else.

You thought it though didn’t you? You know full well that that isn’t what LRavenscroft meant. Why must you persist in deriding those who have faith? Especially those who are bereaved or facing death, to whom faith brings comfort?

Are you saying some people are religious because they are less well educated?

Are you likening religious belief to fags, booze or something addictive?

Please note everyone: I didn't say that.

volver3

Anyone can believe what they like, if it doesn't harm anyone else.

My opinion [cough] is that people who rely on believe in the supernatural to get them through the day, have an immature reliance on something that doesn't exist.

It's a shame if you're offended, but there we are.

I do not believe that it is quite that simple to hold the opinion that 'people who rely on belief in the supernatural to get them through the day, have and immature reliance on something that doesn't exist'. If explored from a broad and balanced perspective, we are not all the same. There are many people who are bereaved or who are facing life changing events who are in need of a faith to 'get them through' the day because they are alone/they may not be as strong or educated or worldly as those who think they have all the answers. You will note that I use the word 'think' as, at the end of the day we are all individuals who bring a different life world experience to a context and none of us are the same. Who are any of us to say what is right and wrong in a certain situation and don't many of us need crutches to get through the day from fags to booze to anything addictive?

Fro quaker Faith and Practice, 16.24 (Its a book where thoughts have been shared over centuries and is reviewed frequently and updated)

"Science and religion have much in common. They are communal activities and involve a search for some greater truth. The sharing of ideas is fundamental to both. The discipline of science can make a valuable contribution to religious thought; critical honesty, the willingness to abandon old ideas and modes of thought when fresh insight demands it and the centrality of experience as an arbiter of truth are as important in one as in the other. In both the scientific and religious searches for truth, the implications of current beliefs are explored to see where they lead. Beliefs are not just safe ledges in an uncertain reality, but rather handholds from which further heights can be reached.

Eleven Quaker scientists, 1989

Grammaretto I'm with your DH's on Taise Music!

I prefer to sit in little old churches tho of course the cathedrals have much beauty. these buildings people have worshipped for centuries, generation after generation of prayer, births, marriages, deaths, leaves a sense of peace for me.

Oh dear....

I had this discussion earlier this week, but anyway...

None of those things were facts, they were assertions which were subsequently disproved. And very, very few people thought the world was flat.

Mind you you thought Einstein believed in God, so your grasp of scientific thought is not great, is it?

Volver (et al). No thanks. You walked, wide-eyed and legless into checkmate with your ridiculous claim that your opinions are actually facts, so I see no need to continue. Game over. Don't take it personally. P.S. Margarine is healthier than butter/smoking is good for your lungs/the world is flat... these were all "facts".

It seems so NanaDana, but thank you.

Anyone can believe what they like, if it doesn't harm anyone else.

My opinion [cough] is that people who rely on believe in the supernatural to get them through the day, have an immature reliance on something that doesn't exist.

It's a shame if you're offended, but there we are.

Well said, Germanshepherdmum. Disappointing that there are those on this thread who are clearly incapable of differentiating between a straightforward expression of opinion, and descending into personal insult. It takes all sorts, I guess..

Oh no. I really don't want to have the "opinions vs facts" chat again, but I will if you need me to....which I think you do...

Volver. You say : "There are facts in the world, and all the opinions that ignore those facts aren't very valid opinions." Surely what you meant to say that was that your (and Franbern's) opinions are actually facts, and that anyone who dares to disagree with you is just basically wrong. Such a mature mindset. Hilarious. Just my opinion, of course..

Effectively comparing religious belief with a child’s belief in Father Christmas and Peter Pan is insulting. If someone has no faith that’s their choice and they can surely state that fact without belittling those of us who do have a faith which sustains us.

Gosh. I'm so glad that so many posters think they've got my personality sussed this weekend.

Volver. Got you sorted now, thanks. Dual personalities, anyone? More belly laughs. [grin}

Had any more thoughts about Einstein?

Yep.

I stand with Franbern

I'm fed up with "expressions of opinion". There are facts in the world, and all the opinions that ignore those facts aren't very valid opinions.

Volver. If Franbern had merely stated that in her opinion religious faith was poppycock, I don't think many would have taken issue with that. However, what she actually did was to personalise it, and to insult those who have faith by stating that "they have been unable to grow up and become proper adults". Your post is in effect defending that stance. I wonder why that is? I repeat, no-one has any problem with straightforward expressions of opinion. Descending into personal insult is a whole different ball game.

Most people seem to attempt a life that is lived in a 'Christ like manner' for want of a better expression. Most of us know what is right, and how we should behave, however often we fail or fall down. This is how I try to be, having found organised religion impossible to reconcile with Christ's teaching. I am not deeply religious, but simply try - failing horribly quite a lot of the time I fear. Kate has had a terrible experience- how much were those cruel people living life in a Christ like manner?

Same here Farzanah

Franbern. You clearly state that those who have faith "have been unable to grow up and become proper adults", and then not only appear surprised that your attitude is described as rude and unpleasant, but also try to claim that you are "tolerant". Stop kidding yourself, and excuse my huge belly laugh.

Oh! And meditation takes the place of prayer in my life 😀

I love visiting old churches, and mosques too, and get a real feeling of awe and wonder, not of God, but at the history, decoration and splendour of the buildings. I also like some hymns and choral music, and Gregorian chanting sends tingles down my spine.

I was brought up a Quaker and attended a Quaker school for a couple of years.
I am still a Quaker.
One of the very few beliefs we have is that of the "inner light" or seeing good (that of God) in everyone.
Sometimes it's hard.

Quaker meetings are various. They are based on silent worship but anyone present is free to speak or "minister".
American Quakers, of whom there are many more than in Britain, sometimes have programmed meetings with paid ministers and hymn singing

DH became a Quaker but he always missed the music so compensated by joining a choir and also singing Taizé each week. He was brought up Episcopalian.

These days I seem to go to funerals in churches frequently. They all have something to offer. The buildings are often beautiful but I prefer the simplicity of the SOF. (Society of Friends, Quakers)

If I don't go to Quaker meeting for a period, I miss it. I do need that peace in my life, that centering down and I'm always glad to have gone.

We are all different and have different needs.

I sometimes wish I did, it must be a comfort.

I love the sort of hymns we sang at school, and if I had a lovely little old church a short walk away, like a dd does (she doesn’t go) I think I’d be tempted to go to Sunday Evensong - as long as it was traditional, no happy clappy stuff. Hers also has a lovely old pub more or less opposite! And every Wednesday night, if I’m in dd’s garden, I can hear the bellringers practising. 🙂