I wish that I had a Faith

Alegrias1

Well HolySox, DD1975 said that scientists seem to think that we just magically appeared from nothing with no explanation, hence disregarding the centuries of scientific advances and knowledge that explain how the universe became as it is. I think that is disrespectful.

As a scientist yourself, I would have thought that you would know that the use of the term "Theory" in Science isn't the same as its use in everyday language. A scientific theory is an "explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results." (thank you Google) Not just something somebody thought up on the back of an envelope. I'm not sure if you believe that evolution is unproven, its not clear from what you write, but if you don't believe in it, how do you explain that the virus is, as we speak, evolving into different variants that are more "fit" for their environment?

What a pity you think "science" ( your quotation marks, not mine ) is a distraction. Never mind, its doing a grand job of keeping us all alive.

As a Christian it is important to respect that God created Adam, as through Adam's sin humankind became separated from God. Jesus death on the cross pays for that sin such that there is a way back to God.
'Evolutionists' deny we are all descended from Adam, so I cannot accept that. We don't know how God created all things, and there may be elements that could fit the evolution theory. For instance, the latest mobile phones have similar construction to the previous mobiles so we say the design is evolving. But usually you can't fit spare parts of an old design to the new ... so is this evolution?
Regarding coronavirus when it mutates it is still a coronavirus isn't it? Is this more adaption rather than evolution that claims man is descended from apes. I am not aware of any experimental study that has shown one form of life has evolved into a completely new type of lifeform. I have read of some claims but they were not substantiated.
By distraction I meant you threw in a curved ball raising the topic of science. Many Christians, as do I, embrace science. We look to explore God's creation and use what we learn for the benefit of others, such as developing medicines. As for keeping us all alive ... well, not indefinitely. However, Jesus offers etrernal life. I would recommend you give Him another think. You're never too old to recieve Him.
Goodnight and God bless.

Thank you Alegrias apology accepted. I think our minds run away with us sometimes, when trying to type responses. I know mine does. That’s why I would never get into a debate on line. I’m not very good at writing things down, much better face to face. That’s probably because, as Christians, we’re more used to it this way.
I will just say this though. You mention about the virus ‘ evolving’, but this isn’t evolution. It’s still a virus. Evolution is one species evolving into another.
I respect your views though and wish you well. Have a good evening.

That is terrible Newatthis, I am sorry you were abused in this way.
The Bible calls on us to love one another not berate one another.

I have always believed in God, Jesus being the son of God and the Trinity and tried to live my life in a good way. However, I have never felt more like a disbeliever and sinner than when I attended an Evangelical Christian church where some members made me feel that because I couldn't pray in tongue, hadn't received the full immersion baptism and didn't give 10 per cent of my (very little) income directly to the church each month then I couldn't really be a Christian and some of whom even wanted to pray for my soul. I was even labelled as a non practicing Christian. There were more people attending this church, who professed to be Christians, and were and had been very evil (Paedophiles, Adulterers, ex jail birds etc), however, because they had 'seen the light' they felt themselves above the likes of me who, I might add, felt guilty about smoking behind the bike shed when I was 15. All I can say is the pearly gates await!

I think that science and God can get along side by side quite well. The intricacies of the way the world is made even when you get down to quantum level speak of an intelligence which tells me that the world didn’t happen randomly. I actually think it takes much more faith to believe life happened randomly than to believe in an intelligent creator God.

I think that many people think that the state the church is in or the abuse of power, mistreatment, or self righteousness of christians is enough to put them off God but christians aren’t any better than anyone else we are all imperfect and broken. I think to use the excuse that people have treated me badly so I won’t believe in God doesn’t make sense. God if He exists and I believe He does has to be much bigger, more righteous, more of everything to be God. He made the universe and yet he watches over us and loves us all.
There is good and bad in the Churches just as anywhere else and not everyone in the Church are followers of Jesus.
The difference is and the reason that Jesus is such good news is that when we believe and follow Jesus we are forgiven and set free.
Whether you accept His forgiveness or not He still loves you His love is unconditional.

No, that's correct, you didn't DD1975, apologies for putting words in your month.

Alegrias1

Well HolySox, DD1975 said that scientists seem to think that we just magically appeared from nothing with no explanation, hence disregarding the centuries of scientific advances and knowledge that explain how the universe became as it is. I think that is disrespectful.

As a scientist yourself, I would have thought that you would know that the use of the term "Theory" in Science isn't the same as its use in everyday language. A scientific theory is an "explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results." (thank you Google) Not just something somebody thought up on the back of an envelope. I'm not sure if you believe that evolution is unproven, its not clear from what you write, but if you don't believe in it, how do you explain that the virus is, as we speak, evolving into different variants that are more "fit" for their environment?

What a pity you think "science" ( your quotation marks, not mine ) is a distraction. Never mind, its doing a grand job of keeping us all alive.

I didn’t mention scientists at all!!

Well HolySox, DD1975 said that scientists seem to think that we just magically appeared from nothing with no explanation, hence disregarding the centuries of scientific advances and knowledge that explain how the universe became as it is. I think that is disrespectful.

As a scientist yourself, I would have thought that you would know that the use of the term "Theory" in Science isn't the same as its use in everyday language. A scientific theory is an "explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results." (thank you Google) Not just something somebody thought up on the back of an envelope. I'm not sure if you believe that evolution is unproven, its not clear from what you write, but if you don't believe in it, how do you explain that the virus is, as we speak, evolving into different variants that are more "fit" for their environment?

What a pity you think "science" ( your quotation marks, not mine ) is a distraction. Never mind, its doing a grand job of keeping us all alive.

Blondiescot

I don't have any faith either - nor have I ever felt the need for one. I was made to go along to Sunday School every week with my granny - it was my father's concession to her after adamantly refusing to have me christened (his view was that once I was old enough to understand, I could choose my own religion - or none). However, even as a young child, I quickly realised there was something far wrong - I was a very questioning child, and this was actively discouraged by those in charge. You had to "believe" - and that was it.
On the other hand, I respect those who have a faith, and I find religious buildings and traditions fascinating in their own way - but only as an outsider looking in!

Curious, Blondiescot, but what exactly were you to 'believe'?

It takes courage to seek God without the fellowship of a congregation. The Unitarians provide an understanding fellowship for people who refuse to believe some pre-digested doctrine.

Alegrias1

I try to not criticise believers, as I've said, because everyone is entitled to believe what they like, as long as it doesn't impact anyone else.

But why do believers feel its OK to disrespect an understanding of cosmology and quantum physics as if its just "magical". If you'd like a good discussion about the Big Bang and evolution, I'm up for it if you are.

Sorry Alegrias1 Christians do not disrespect cosmology and quantum physics. I presume you are thinking of the 'creation' vs 'evolution' debate - perhaps worthy of new thread, if one isn't already running. I will say, being a scientist myself, that I understand the Theory of Evolution is still unproven, still just a theory, a matter of 'belief' you might say. As a Christian I also know there are things that go beyond the laws of physics, such as Jesus's ressurection, and the 'science' topic is merely a distraction.

OK, you know where I am if you ever feel the need DiscoDancer1975

No thanks Alegrias, but appreciate the invitation.

I try to not criticise believers, as I've said, because everyone is entitled to believe what they like, as long as it doesn't impact anyone else.

But why do believers feel its OK to disrespect an understanding of cosmology and quantum physics as if its just "magical". If you'd like a good discussion about the Big Bang and evolution, I'm up for it if you are.

We too, ‘ came across many believers who are less than Christian ‘. That’s why we stopped going to church. Being a Christian isn’t about being ‘ good and nice’, although hopefully, those things would follow. It’s about a belief, and desire to follow Jesus, who is Head of the church.

Churches are man made institutions with man made rules. I’ve known of Ministers who are not Christians!! It probably has the appeal of being quite an easy job, which I’m sure they find it isn’t. It can be hard enough when you are a Christian.

I get people not believing in anything, and just going about their daily business, without giving it too much thought. In this case, Fanny seems to be questioning, which is how it starts for most of us who are Christians I would imagine.

What I don’t get...is that someone can’t understand the virgin birth, rising from the dead etc, but can believe....what? That we all just magically appeared from nowhere...no explanation.

The Bible is history. If you don’t believe it...I get it, but you shouldn’t believe any other historical account either. It doesn’t make sense.

By the way....welcome to gransnet Holysox.

It must be a huge comfort to those who have faith but I have come across too many believers who are less than Christian in their actions and behaviour towards fellow their man and woman.

Virgin births, rising from the dead, loaves and fishes ? No I genuinely can’t understand anyone believing those stories.

I used to go to Sunday school and church regularly and was even confirmed as a youngster but that was long ago. I follow the ‘do as you would be done by, be kind, do no harm’ way of life and it works for me. When I die that will be that. The end.

I used to belong to an evangelical church where I loved the feeling of care and belonging, but always felt an imposter. I think I found it initially attractive because of an insecure childhood, but I just couldn’t bring myself to believe in a supernatural deity watching over us, however comforting and attractive that seems.
I have in later life realised that I am, and have been a Humanist all along, Whitewave2 has posted about humanism in detail so I won’t repeat, but humanism makes perfect sense to me.
I think it’s very normal to have “spiritual” feelings, and for example to be filled with a sense of wonder and awe when confronted by beautiful landscapes, or great buildings, such as Cathedrals, where you can feel a sense of the past. You don’t need a god for that, or to be kind, compassionate or to care deeply for others.
It may be comforting for some to believe that life goes on after death, but I value my life more because I believe that this life is all that I have.

I believe in God. It’s not always easy. I have had doubts and still do.
Belief in God does not mean that you don’t suffer pain, grief or loss. It doesn’t mean you go through life with a happy smile on your face because nothing in the world is wrong.
I have read the points made about humanism and agree with it all mostly.
I try to think of others, do good. Try not to harm others
I feel slighted on occasions, anger, all the human emotions but I am a better person because of my belief because it makes me think twice sometimes about what I’m about to say or do.
Something really funny, I won’t say on the off chance that it might hurt someone, something I’m justifiably angry about but won’t react because it might just be the last straw for that person on that day. Of course I don’t always win that battle with myself.
There are some awful, evil, cruel, abusive, selfish, spiteful people within the Church and community. As in all aspects of life, there are good people and bad but they are people, not God not Jesus.
Many comments on this thread about dislike of faith relate to the actions of people acting under the name of faith.
All I can say is in my case it’s not necessarily a choice.
If something happens in my life and my world rocks a prayer is in my mind before I have a chance to think. If you think I’m using God as a crutch to get through life you are absolutely correct. I’d find it hard to walk without him. Has my life been one of no troubles or worries because of my faith, absolutely not. But it helps me. I feel God is there. Once or twice I have felt such a feeling of utter peace, only maybe for a minute or so, but the memory of those times stays with me. Peace is what I’m aiming for.

Their = theif

Alegrias1

But the thing that's got us through the last year are people who have given up their time for us, people who have disregarded their own safety for us, and most of all the scientists and medics who have treated us and who have developed vaccines and treatments for this terrible disease.

Its the humans that are seeing us through.

Absolutely - I’ve been reduced to tears several times over the past year at the sheer goodness of people who’ve been there for us. Nothing heroic but everyday kindness and I would say love. From the first bag of lockdown shopping ( before we got a slot) accompanied by a bunch of daffodils ( it was the daffodils that did it) through many doorstep offerings and acts of kindness throughout the year and it still continues. Then all those providing services for us with some literally risking and sacrificing their lives. And not forgetting the people in the back offices often forgotten and unsung who kept as many wheels turning as possible.

This last year has shown us the infinite capacity for caring that exists in humans and I believe in that - those who have just seen this year as an opportunity to benefit themselves/ their friends are ever present of course but it’s the former that makes life worth living

Just don’t give up. I came to believe in Jesus Christ in my 50s and I am so grateful for that gift. I had never believed before that, though I would have liked to. Nothing I had done gave me faith it kind of descended on me after I truly believed that I had sinned as we all do. My work was in a helping profession so I kind of thought I had ‘earned’ entrance to heaven if such a place even existed. Wrong, wrong wrong. I had to become humble and accept I was no better than anyone else - then I found I believed, quite suddenly and dramatically for me. I cried and my husband wondered what on earth had happened. I can’t explain it really but I am and always will be grateful. It changed my life. Look at the their on the cross. Talk about last minute conversion. Where there’s life there’s hope you could say.

I don't have any faith either - nor have I ever felt the need for one. I was made to go along to Sunday School every week with my granny - it was my father's concession to her after adamantly refusing to have me christened (his view was that once I was old enough to understand, I could choose my own religion - or none). However, even as a young child, I quickly realised there was something far wrong - I was a very questioning child, and this was actively discouraged by those in charge. You had to "believe" - and that was it.
On the other hand, I respect those who have a faith, and I find religious buildings and traditions fascinating in their own way - but only as an outsider looking in!

But the thing that's got us through the last year are people who have given up their time for us, people who have disregarded their own safety for us, and most of all the scientists and medics who have treated us and who have developed vaccines and treatments for this terrible disease.

Its the humans that are seeing us through.

Hallelujah Holysox, thank God literally, we don’t have to rely on humans to see us through. History has shown over and over...that this’ll never happen. Just look at the last year!!