Christianity needs a resurrection according to 'intellectual atheism'

"gullible" is too strong a word and you're right varian faith cannot be proved any more than it can disproved to the one who has that faith.

As for "it appears to be the prerogative of the faithful to easily take offence if anyone questions their faith", I disagree. Questioning someone's faith isn't the same as insulting someone for the faith they hold and/or insulting what that faith is.

I am not intolerant of those who question my faith, but I am intolerant of those who insult my faith which is extremely important to me, and/or insult me for having that faith.

What is the difference between questioning and insulting?

The core of faith is belief, if you like . blind belief in something which cannot be proved.

Is it insulting to point this out?

I am a member of a fairly high church CofE congregation. MANY of us recognise the validity of all the other major religions. Many of us are 'agnostic' ie 'don't knows' - the faith being exactly that - a faith - no claim to know . Personally I go because the faith helps me be less stupid and weak than otherwise, helps me cope with life situations that cannot be born alone. I am lucky that my local church is on a spot used for worship long before Christianity, has superb music and preaching that never condescends to the listener - and lots of children and young people. The country would be a far worse place if atheism replaced Christianity.

Oh come on varian you know the difference between questioning and insulting. As previous posted, telling someone they're gullible for having the faith they do is insulting.

For someone who does not believe, I can understand why someone who does may appear to have "blind belief in something which cannot be proved". Do I find the aforementioned insulting? No.

As I posted earlier, what someone believes in cannot be proved to someone who doesn't believe, or disproved to someone who does.

The core of my Christian faith is belief but not blind belief.

I agree sandelf. The OT gives a strict, 'righteous' code to live by but the NT flavours this with grace - 'mercy triumphs over justice'. We live in an imperfect world so I am thankful the church has helped shape the values of modern western society. But maybe a consequence is too much 'grace' that we are forgetting we still need some of the OT values.

However, concerned about your statement "no claim to know". I believe one of the aims of Jesus's mission was so that we would know God. (e.g. John 17:3)

geekesse I might be cynical but always open to consider the 'other side' of the argument. Who/what is Hansard? Google lists Hansard as records of UK Parliament?

As a 'professional theologian' did you conclude which religion is right - or perhaps 'the most reliable'? If western society abandons the teachings of Christ which direction would you recommend?

In our postmodernist world All Truth is deemed as relative. There is no objective Truth to point to. Nietzsche’s treaty that “God is Dead” and his prophetic ideas that the ultimate consequence of the death of god would lead to a Nihilistic Wasteland devoid of meaning and purpose is becoming more and more evident; we replace the gods of old with the gods of commodification, not just of things but of humanity itself. My subjective experience is of a spiritual higher self, manifested as the Divine within and the ground of All being. And the stories in all holy books reveal, illuminate this ineffable idea, which lies beyond our language to express, it is more of a soul longing which is a deep heart longing for much more than the Mundane. My choosing to believe this way supports me in having inner peace, joy, and meaningful purpose for my life. Maybe it’s wishful thinking or as some have said gullibility but I’m a happy bunny

ive spent many an hour debating with my son who went to uni to study theology and philosophy, our debates nowadays get shorter ,we agree that religion is based on faith,and the 3 major world religions come from abraham.If a man went up a mountain today with his son to kill him, until a man in the sky stopped
him ,he would be sectioned.Maybe it is all metaphor but it does not seem a very credible to me .

Hello Red1 But does this story have to be credible ? Is that the point. I see the bible stories as signifiers as messages , the meaning - surface or deeper, we choose to abstract from them, how we interpret them, will be unique as we all are.

Excellent post Stormystar.

What surprises me is the vitriol Christianity seems to attract compared with other religions like Islam. It is something we expect and surely get. It is a hard road to follow but imagine the outcry if followers of Mohammed had even half the nasty supercilious comments aimed at them that Christians do.

nanna8

What surprises me is the vitriol Christianity seems to attract compared with other religions like Islam. It is something we expect and surely get. It is a hard road to follow but imagine the outcry if followers of Mohammed had even half the nasty supercilious comments aimed at them that Christians do.

Oh, they do! You just aren’t looking in the right places.

nanna8

What surprises me is the vitriol Christianity seems to attract compared with other religions like Islam. It is something we expect and surely get. It is a hard road to follow but imagine the outcry if followers of Mohammed had even half the nasty supercilious comments aimed at them that Christians do.

You got to be kidding?

Anybody told you lately you look like a letterbox in your religious dress? Or that its your religion that's the problem?

(Comments from Johnson, BTW)

I think Jewish people might have a different view to you as well.

Alegrias1

nanna8

What surprises me is the vitriol Christianity seems to attract compared with other religions like Islam. It is something we expect and surely get. It is a hard road to follow but imagine the outcry if followers of Mohammed had even half the nasty supercilious comments aimed at them that Christians do.

You got to be kidding?

Anybody told you lately you look like a letterbox in your religious dress? Or that its your religion that's the problem?

(Comments from Johnson, BTW)

I think Jewish people might have a different view to you as well.

No, we’re just told when and we can’t wear our crucifixes!

DiscoDancer1975

Alegrias1

nanna8

What surprises me is the vitriol Christianity seems to attract compared with other religions like Islam. It is something we expect and surely get. It is a hard road to follow but imagine the outcry if followers of Mohammed had even half the nasty supercilious comments aimed at them that Christians do.

You got to be kidding?

Anybody told you lately you look like a letterbox in your religious dress? Or that its your religion that's the problem?

(Comments from Johnson, BTW)

I think Jewish people might have a different view to you as well.

No, we’re just told when and we can’t wear our crucifixes!

I didn't say it didn't exist, I said other religions suffer from it as well.

DiscoDancer1975 said ‘No, we’re just told when and we can’t wear our crucifixes!’

Please can you expand? When exactly are Christians told when they can’t wear their crucifixes?

If you are alluding to the case of Nadia Eweida, she won her case against her employer. If you are referring to Shirley Chaplin, she lost her case because a cross on a neck chain was a health and safety problem. A couple of legal cases that hit the front pages of the redtop press do not amount to ‘vitriol’ or ‘nasty supercilious comments’.

geekesse

DiscoDancer1975 said ‘No, we’re just told when and we can’t wear our crucifixes!’

Please can you expand? When exactly are Christians told when they can’t wear their crucifixes?

If you are alluding to the case of Nadia Eweida, she won her case against her employer. If you are referring to Shirley Chaplin, she lost her case because a cross on a neck chain was a health and safety problem. A couple of legal cases that hit the front pages of the redtop press do not amount to ‘vitriol’ or ‘nasty supercilious comments’.

We get them all the time. I’m not going to list them. It’s continuous. You won’t see it if you not a Christian.
The Bible says to expect it though, so that’s good enough for me.

It’s constant. Some subtle, some overt but not a week goes by without it. We do expect it , it is written in the Bible and we are certainly a target as Discodancer says. Before I became a Christian I think I did it too, just couldn’t help making the odd blasphemous comment. So sad. These boards are full of it.

People who see persecution in the ordinary interactions of life are paranoid. Christians who make that claim in the UK are clearly out of touch with what real persecution looks like.

DiscoDancer1975 made the very specific claim that ‘we’re just told when and we can’t wear our crucifixes’ to support her view, but refuses to give any evidence that this is true. It would hardly be high level persecution in any case, but if one is going to make a claim to support a contentious view, one ought to be able to give some evidence that the claim is true.

geekesse

People who see persecution in the ordinary interactions of life are paranoid. Christians who make that claim in the UK are clearly out of touch with what real persecution looks like.

DiscoDancer1975 made the very specific claim that ‘we’re just told when and we can’t wear our crucifixes’ to support her view, but refuses to give any evidence that this is true. It would hardly be high level persecution in any case, but if one is going to make a claim to support a contentious view, one ought to be able to give some evidence that the claim is true.

Whatever you say geekesse

The Ressurection has already happened.

nanna8 - I totally agree. I find 'vitriol' in this thread. Constant theme of making out you have to be stupid to be a Christian. Phrases like 'ludicrous arguments about 'God'', "gullible", "blind belief in something which cannot be proved", the Bible as an historical document is "wild exaggeration" and "complete nonsense".

I know many Christians that are highly intelligent, PhDs, leading academics in their field. Being a Christian isn't about being clever and working it out. It is a matter of the heart.

Alegrias1 stated "Give me Maxwell's Equations any day." According to Wikipedia, James Clerk-Maxwell "was an evangelical Presbyterian and in his later years became an Elder of the Church of Scotland." One of the cleverest Scotsmen was a Christian.

geekesse In the UK Christians are generally "patronised" at best, more often ridiculed. In other parts of the world they just cut our heads off...

The least interesting thing about Maxwell was that in a time when you had to be religious to hold a professorship, he was religious.

David Hume then.

HolySox

geekesse In the UK Christians are generally "patronised" at best, more often ridiculed. In other parts of the world they just cut our heads off...

Hmmm. People don’t patronise me. But then, I don’t spout rubbish in public