Canon Andrew Hindley

fancythat

^But IS God on the side of bullies and abusers or do they just seem to be getting away with it in this life?^

God, SO is not.

Will answer more fully, when I have more time.

O I know he's not, I was not seriously questioning that, just for people to think about.. I look forward to your answer, when you have time.

I do think these people think no one knows and they forget who sees all.

I’m afraid Norah that most of us can’t imagine anyone doing that just to gain access to children, because we (thankfully) don’t think like paedophiles. But evidence suggests that that’s exactly what many of them do - not necessarily the church, but anything that will give them a veneer of respectability and open access to children in a trusted role. The fact that it’s too sick for us to contemplate only adds to their confidence and ability to get away with it.

There is a good maxim in child protection: be willing to think the unthinkable.

Anniebach

A pedophile chooses to go to university then a theological college to access children ? I think not

I tend to agree.

I can't imagine any priest looking towards minimal wage, and state pension - going to University and theological college to access children. I think one is born with a proclivity towards psedophilia or not.

I think you underestimate how cunning and manipulative these people can be.

Anniebach

A pedophile chooses to go to university then a theological college to access children ? I think not

I think that that is completely plausible. It is a good job and an able man can do very well. make a good living, get a free house and with no family make signifiant progress if he wishes.

Whats not to like?

Why choose a vocation to have access to children ? I worked in a Cathedral for many years, was a member, lived a five minute
walk away , knew many priests and their families. Priesthood is much more than Sunday Services and visiting parishioners .

There are so many after school activities, the Scout Movement, I was an Akela! one could be involved with many
clubs.

Annie - why?

A pedophile chooses to go to university then a theological college to access children ? I think not

Anniebach

God does not take sides

Maybe it's about time he (she, it?) started?

Crossed posts Iam

Paedophiles will always seek an avenue that gives them access to children. Some will abuse their own children - that’s an easy one. Others will target single mothers - a well recognised pathway. Many will seek employment with children or manoeuvre themselves into positions of trust where they will be seen as pillars of the community. How easy from there to tell children no one will believe them.

Sadly for me, I have come across foster parents who have abused children over many years, always well regarded carers who will take the most troubled children - what perfect victims for their evil perversion. Who is going to believe a troubled child in the care system. And always there is shock when it comes to light, and guilt for us as professionals. Never underestimate what a charming and caring persona these people can present. And never, ever underestimate the lengths they will go to to gain access to children.

I know women abuse too, but it is still much rarer, and I think their pattern of behaviour is different. But I admit I don’t really know as much about women who abuse and I think it is still less understood.

It’s well established by research that some men who are attracted to children and/or adolescents find employment. Or volunteer opportunities thst give them access to the children about whom their sexual fantasies exist. No amount of ‘supervision’ will get rid of their sexual fantasies. They wouldn’t admit them in supervision. They enjiy them in private.
Yes some women abuse children, as described by Charles Spencer in his recent memoir. Let’s not get distracted by this. Most sex offenders, like most violent offenders are men.
We need to accept this and have a proper dialogue about how best we respond to reality. How do we bring up our boy chikdren

God does not take sides

But IS God on the side of bullies and abusers or do they just seem to be getting away with it in this life?

God, SO is not.

Will answer more fully, when I have more time.

Terribly sad you last sentence Luckygirl

So sorry.

But IS God on the side of bullies and abusers or do they just seem to be getting away with it in this life?

They may do cover ups, but they shouldn't need to because there shouldn't be anything that needs covering up. There will always be those who speak the truth and don't allow it to be cloaked in darkness.

It is plain and simple power, plus having god on your side.What will the apologists make of this one, no doubt some head twisting answer about free will ,god weeping etc etc...

Anniebach

Surely anyone who does bully or abused is not fit for any job or
profession,

No idea what rights are being spoken of here

You're right actually, though we were talking about clergy.

The rights are mentioned further back in the conversation if you want to read it all. The freehold is why they could not get rid of Canon Andrew when they wanted to and it's the very thing that's not being given to today's female Priests in charge. That's why I said, because of what men have done, the new recruits are not given the same rights that vicars had.

I am of religious persuasion and I do believe it. For that reason I am holy wholly committed to my Safeguarding role.

I don't think they gravitate to those professions either. As new recuits they are probably full of faith and hope, but then if not well supervised they may give into some temptation. There is always the fact that we become like the people we surround ourselves with.

Counselors have to have a certain amount of hours of counselling themselves in order to practice. In the same way, Clergy could have more supervision to help them stay close to God and there should be something written into their contracts in case they were not able to practice because of a sin of some type that made it impossible to minister because they would be heaping judgement on themselves in doing so.

I'm so sorry about your Grandfather I know abuse was prevalent in those Catholic childrens homes years ago. We can only highlight things today in the hopes that clergy can be safe people to be around and that churches can be safe.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Luckygirl3, and I think paedophiles do gravitate towards those types of professions. As I said before, churches of various denominations have a long history of covering up this kind of thing. It's not a new phenomenon by any means. I understand that those of a religious persuasion may not want to believe that, but it's a fact.

Surely anyone who does bully or abused is not fit for any job or
profession,

No idea what rights are being spoken of here

OnwardandUpward

Oh I don't know, a paedo milk man would probably be all over the papers too. Milkmen have always had a bit of reputation with women as it is!

Just ask Ernie, the fastest milkman in the West!

All religions have always had a strange relationship with sex in my opinion.

From their inceptions the sexual rules/ regulations/taboos have been a dominant feature. Strict prohibitions are built in to many faiths..... e.g. separating men from women (especially "unclean" menstruating women), extolling virginity, outlawing homosexuality - and cherry-picking bits of religious texts to justify this.

In some ways it is not surprising as the sexual impulse is a very strong one and all cultures have sought to exercise some control in the interests of social cohesion. But the association between sex and guilt is a strong feature of religions; and the emphasis on celibacy in some is a huge problem.

I do think that paedophiles gravitate towards jobs/professions where they can live out their fantasies because of the power they wield - clearly the church is one of those settings. This does not mean that there are not good people in the churches, but just that these settings provide a prime hunting ground for those with paedophile tendencies. And the churches' difficult relationship with sexuality makes it more likely that cover ups will occur as they want to avoid scandal.

I speak as one whose grandfather was buggered by priests in his catholic children's home.

I don't think anyone on this thread is condemning any one who serves God.

Abuse, bullying... we know those things are not serving God, so no problem talking about it.