Canon Andrew Hindley

Based on information I read. Unless you were there, you also cannot contradict.

Yes it is your opinion

As you replied to someone else in defence of your views @Anniebach that it was your opinion, this is mine.

Quote OnwardandUpward Sun 18-Aug-24 21:31:26
Yes, I'm sure many did know what was going on, but I read that they were relying on this man's word to help them in their careers, so maybe were afraid to speak out.

You are sure, you do not know,

Yes, I'm sure many did know what was going on, but I read that they were relying on this man's word to help them in their careers, so maybe were afraid to speak out.

@Fancythat It's true, we do need to be discerning and not take things at face value. Yes people do seem to kowtow to authority without really examining what it stands for, sadly.

@Anniebach but by you not believing it's happening is the same way that people ignore what they do not want to see. Not looking or stopping is what the Priest who ignored the traveller in the parable of the Good Samaritan did. In the end it was only the Good Samaritan that helped.
Yes as you say "In the Churches there are liars , thieves, adulterers, abusers, law breakers, far outnumbered by what is good in man " (AND some of them are PAID by the church!)

@Iam64 Yes I totally agree that the Safeguarding policies of the CofE were completely inadequate (and probably still are!) Even now they have anti bullying policies, they are just words on a page and not even all churches have one.

Anyone with an important job title is only as good as the way they treat others, especially the waiter or anyone who they deem beneath them. Actions always speak louder than words. Many times people who bully others are trying to cover up something about themselves because they are weak and insecure.

@Bluebelle The way that some people hero worship a man in ministry is ridiculous. He may be charismatic, yet a horrible cheat and abuser but if all the women he doesn't live with think he's amazing then he must be, right? (sigh) I've seen those women and those men before. The persona they have helps them to prey on other vulnerable women.

Many abusers that I know of in my Safeguarding experience (I am pleased to say NOT for the CofE) have told horrendous lies about the very people they have abused and wronged terribly, causing others to treat them badly when they were i need of support. This level of gaslighting and abuse is nothing short of evil.

Agree MOnica

Anniebach, no. That was the problem.

The other problem is that nothing was ever proved or reached levels of evidence that could be expected to get a conviction in a trial. The young men involved all flatly denied the accusations. There was this cloud of suspicion and risk taking behaviour that surrounded him and he was suspended several times, but had to be reinstated because nothing was ever proved.

This is the core of this whole problem. this very clever and manipulative man always suceeded in staying just clear of doing anything provably wrong.

It is like having a thief in the office, everyone is pretty sure they know who it is, but do not have enough evidence to confirm it.

Yes it must , at times the guilty will be free but the innocent incarcerated

Perhaps that's why people are moved on to different areas, though?

Not really, I should think.
Innocent until proven guilty must still hold true.

Can a person accused but not tried be sacked ?

Thanks MissAdventure.
From what I’ve read, I don’t conclude thr ArchBish of Canterbury ‘did nothing’.
It’s one if those awful situations where endless complaints were made over many years eg 15 year old boy on work experience -adult woman who alleged he touched her inappropriately. It’s obvious to us that Something Should have been Done. Yes it should.
They CofE safeguarding policies were inadequate. The police.cps consistently agreed there’s a problem but it doesn’t lead to,prosecution for various reasons.
Prosecutions for sexual offences are rare, successful prosecutions vanishingly rare

Thank you MissAdventure

maddyone

Gosh. I know nothing about this, apart from what I’ve just read on GN two minutes ago.
Is it true that the Archbishop of Canterbury knew and did nothing?
Who is Canon Andrew Hindley anyway? Obviously he’s in the church. Is/was he important? Oh my goodness, how terrible. Beyond shocked.

Same here, but having now read about it, well, words fail me.
I thought the C of E had learned lessons from the past but obvs not.🤬

catholicherald.co.uk/four-year-study-released-showing-impact-of-abuse-crisis-on-catholic-community-in-england-and-wales/

Yes, from what I can remember seeing.
I'll try to find the link, if it helps.

Was this the Roman Catholic Church in England only ?

Executive Summary
This investigation report examines the extent of institutional failings by the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales to protect children from sexual abuse and examines the Church’s current safeguarding regime. It draws on evidence from the Inquiry’s three case studies on Ampleforth and Downside Abbeys and their respective schools, Ealing Abbey and St Benedict’s School, and the Archdiocese of Birmingham.

Between 1970 and 2015, the Roman Catholic Church received more than 900 complaints involving over 3,000 instances of child sexual abuse against more than 900 individuals connected to the Church, including priests, monks and volunteers. In the same period, there were 177 prosecutions resulting in 133 convictions. Civil claims against dioceses and religious institutes have resulted in millions of pounds being paid in compensation.

It would be wrong, however, to regard child sexual abuse within the Roman Catholic Church as solely a historical problem. Since 2016, there have been more than 100 reported allegations each year. Across the entire period of nearly 50 years covered by this Inquiry, the true scale of sexual abuse of children is likely to have been much higher.

As we have said previously, faith organisations are marked out from most other institutions by their explicit moral purpose. The Roman Catholic Church is no different. In the context of the sexual abuse of children, that moral purpose was betrayed over decades by those in the Church who perpetrated this abuse and those who turned a blind eye to it. The Church’s neglect of the physical, emotional and spiritual well-being of children and young people in favour of protecting its reputation was in conflict with its mission of love and care for the innocent and vulnerable

Expert opinion can play its part in the evidence in a court case - either for the prosecution or the defence.

Evidence or expert opinion ?

Anniebach

Proof of the workings of the subconscious mind in a court of law ? It was evidence of a crime !

Psychiatrists are frequently called upon to give evidence in court, in many different kinds of cases. You also have forensic psychologists who can be called upon to give evidence too.

Proof of the workings of the subconscious mind in a court of law ? It was evidence of a crime !

Anniebach

I was replying to the post from Iam, apologies for not saying when I posted

Subconsciously? who can prove yes or no?

Well, I'm sure there are psychiatrists and other specialists who could cite numerous studies to that effect. I've sat through sexual abuse court cases where that has certainly been brought up in evidence - not necessarily church-related.

I was replying to the post from Iam, apologies for not saying when I posted

Subconsciously? who can prove yes or no?

Anniebach

I am sure men who are sexually attracted to children often seek
employment or volunteering in work which gives them access to children, I do not believe teenagers choose a career which
involves much study because they are sexually attracted to
children.

I think BlueBelle explained that rather well in her earlier post. They may not be choosing that path for that explicit reason, but subconsciously they are drawn to a career which would allow them access to children.