Social Necessity of Spiritual Need

Concerning the word 'spiritual', I not that many responders are unwilling to revise what they have always thought the word meant.
Please note that Wittgenstein wrote that the meaning of a word is its use.

I recognise that my usage of 'spiritual 'is not the popular traditional usage. Since I have no use for supernaturalism or the historicity of Biblical myths I seek to use the word 'spiritual' in a practical sense and even in a political sense .

Apologies, Fancy That, for not replying to you sooner.I am so glad to be supported by a Christian. I don't think I'd be acceptable to any Christian church as I ask awkward questions, but I do love Jesus.

Not Spagh, I say social necessity because the ethic I support is social as opposed to individual. Most of us here are reared within the broadly Christian moral code, and I guess most of us here want to be good whether or not there is any personal reward for being good.

I agree with your last sentence Caleo.

the ethic I support is social as opposed to individual

Surely all ethics are personal? Is that not individual?

I have what my mother would have called a "social conscience" and believe in supporting others. My ethics are my own.
I'm not sure what the "social ethic" is.

Not trying to be awkward.

I appreciate your reply Skye and started to type a reply and then decided a discussion about CS Lewis was a distraction from the thread so deleted it.

Please don’t think I’m ignoring you. I was quite enjoying arguing my case and would continue to debate his merits or otherwise on another thread, but I think we might be the only two on it 😬

Caleo

Apologies, Fancy That, for not replying to you sooner.I am so glad to be supported by a Christian. I don't think I'd be acceptable to any Christian church as I ask awkward questions, but I do love Jesus.

The Churches I know, welcome questions.

To me, "spiritual need" translates as a desire to have a belief that there is something more to our existence than is apparent to the eye. Some people find that in organised religion, others find it through thought and meditation. It is highly personal and subjective, and
because of that I don't recognise that it can be a 'social necessity'. The two don't go together at all.

fancythat

Caleo

Apologies, Fancy That, for not replying to you sooner.I am so glad to be supported by a Christian. I don't think I'd be acceptable to any Christian church as I ask awkward questions, but I do love Jesus.

The Churches I know, welcome questions.

Jesus asked awkward questions too.

Thanks Lathyrus3, no problems 😀

fancythat

Caleo

Apologies, Fancy That, for not replying to you sooner.I am so glad to be supported by a Christian. I don't think I'd be acceptable to any Christian church as I ask awkward questions, but I do love Jesus.

The Churches I know, welcome questions.

The ones I know do too. Come on an Alpha course, no questions off bounds there.

Allira He did.

Taichinan, it's escapist to reduce spiritual need to a search for what makes one feel happy. This world is full of horrors ;Jesus and other prophets and philosophers did not work to make people feel better but to show how to live a good life.

Jesus got his hands dirty getting to grips with the evils of his time and place when imperial Rome had colonised Palestine and ruled by brutality.

I will not be attending an Alpha course because there is no supernatural way of being. All being is natural.

We need to be politically active in the service of good, truth, and beauty. We do not need to escape into supernatural beliefs except for occasional entertainment and relaxation in the form of ghost stories.

^ there is no supernatural way of being. All being is natural.^

Your post before this one indicates the supernatural.
Jesus died on the cross and was raised again.

fancythat I think he did too, and there is a good intellectual case for saying that.

Cross Examined blog post, ‘The Minimal Facts of the Resurrection’
crossexamined.org/the-minimal-facts-of-the-resurrection/

Mike Licona and Gary Habermas, The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus
amzn.eu/d/fKzxObP

Caleo According to Jesus himself, his purpose was 'to give his life as a ransom for many' (Matthew 20.28), i e to pay the penalty for sin for all who will trust in him. Though of course he did also teach and give an example on how to live a good life.

Of course, people who think the material world is all there is must think he either lied or was crazy when he claimed to be God. (E g, 'When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left' - Matthew 25.31-33.) C S Lewis called this the Lunatic, Liar or Lord trilemma.

If he was a lunatic or a liar, he didn't really show how to live a good life, as you say, did he? If he was sane and truthful, he is God and the material world is not all there is.

In these modern times there are few who believe in supernatural miracles. Education is universal in developed countries , and science is taught.

Jesus as an icon of goodness and truth adapts from the age of faith to the present age of scientific enlightenment. The moral code as promulgated by Jesus remains the basis of our civilisation. Outworn supernaturalist beliefs are unnecessary because the moral code as exemplified in the Sermon on the Mount serves our scientific age as well as it served medieval supernatural faith.

Skye, ministers have to preach to the congregations they actually have sitting in the pews.Many people who attend their church will have been taught since infancy that miracles happened, and that miracles are historical events.

Jesus did I believe give his life 'as a ransom'in the sense that what Jesus believed was dangerous . Jesus well knew that he was a serious nuisance to the Roman authorities and that he would eventually be put to death. Socrates too died in similar circumstances when he became too much of a thorn in the side of the Athenian authorities. Martin Luther King also sacrificed his life for the common good, and many many others .

Skye, Jesus was no lunatic or liar. His life and work were fully and truthfully devoted to the common good. He was of course a practising Jew and naturally Jesus worked within the terms of the OT prophets.

The claim of Jesus to be son of God do not refer to His being a supernatural being, on the contrary Jesus is the earthly second person of the Trinity born of a real woman in the normal way. We are all sons and daughters of God in the sense that what happened could not be otherwise than it was, as if God had ordained it all.

There are literally thousands of different religions in the world, many with drastically opposing views. They can't all be right, can they? People who do believe only believe in their own religion.

Vice Versa, what you say is evidently correct. However please read about The Axial Age bigthink.com/thinking/axial-age-greatest-minds-walked-earth/

Perhaps in everyone there is sometimes a sense of wonder or fear about the universe and their small part in it. It can be frightening to think of ourselves as something completely insignificant and our lives as relatively meaningless.

I am not a believer in any kind of religion, as I see them generally as being reflections of a particular time, and enshrining a particular type of hierarchy - usually male, though there are elements of some religions that resonate with me - particularly those that are, reportedly, Jesus's teachings.

I understand why people in great danger or under extreme stress find solace in prayer - in the hope that there is something out there which is on their side and looking out for them. Perhaps that is what is meant by a spiritual need. If it is, it is essentially a selfish one. But it could be argued that a person's unselfish actions and care for others is underpinned by a a spiritual need, rather than a physical one.

Eloethan," a sense of wonder or fear about the universe and their small part in it. "

This answered by Jesus who pointed out that God cares about the fall of a mere sparrow, so how much more would God care about you.

That is not merely sentimental, but is how God is the name for a deterministic system that underpins all being. So you are what you are and the System cares.

If someone does believe in religion, whatever religion that may be, then that's entirely up to them. I don't. I went to church with my grandmother from an early age, until I started to ask questions and since then, I have been a confirmed atheist. So feel free to believe in whatever you choose, but don't expect the rest of us to share in your fantasies.