Climate Change

Wow! As I say "I have my eye in" with the roofs. They are both gorgeous. Particularly the one in Queensland - stunning colonial mansion.
We have the opposite problem with energy efficiency in housing legislation here. If you put 100 civil servants - or it could be more - together for 2 years you end up with something rather complicated that no one understands and that , because of the many layers of safeguards etc, is going to be very expensive to run.
I favour an approach where you give grants to poor people and everyone else - - lower stamp duty (house sales tax) for well insulated properties, lower property taxes for properties that have done the basics - loft and cavity insulation. The stick is, if you are stubbornly refusing to insulate a property, you pay more tax. Landlords are the worst, because they don't pay the energy bills.

I have a friend on Mull who loves photographing old tin sheds. She'd have a ball in NZ and Oz by the sound of it.

It was very sad that people lost their lives because of politicians doing all they can to get elected to government. It was not thought out at all and people felt dreadful, they were only young.

I would be interested to hear what your friend says about the galvanised corrugated iron roofing. I really love the look of old houses in Adelaide and other parts of Australia with corrugated roofing. I have been in this house and it is beautiful. They had to rebuild some of it and the owner said they retrieved the original stone that had been dumped on the property.
I also love the old Queenslander houses in Queensland They are quaint and were built on stilts with corrugated roofing. Nowadays some people build in the bottom of the houses and wonder why they are hot, it's because the heat is trapped and seeps up through the house.

Interesting Faye - of course to our eyes it looks like a shed if it has an iron roof. Just like terraced houses look horrible to people who are not used to them.
I would not dispute for a moment that black surfaces absorb more heat than light or shiny. Basic physics. But the thermal properties of different materials come into it as well. Movement of heat in and out of house is different in heat and cold e.g. a thick stone wall will keep interior cool in summer but certainly not warm in winter. An ordinary cavity wall is much better at retaining heat in winter. Some people I know did the calculation and your stone wall would have to be many metres thick to retain heat as well as an insulated cavity wall.
I will debate the roofing thing with my resident physics guru no doubt he will have some interesting things to say.
That Rudd thing was annoying wasn't it. They got up and running too fast without any safeguards and then when a couple of people electrocuted themselves by putting nails through cables, pulled the plug on the whole thing. Sad for the electrocuted ones as well

JessM I also did energy audits for Kevin Rudd's Green Loans scheme. I could tell as soon as I walked into a house if it was insulated. Lots of people were really passionate about saving energy and making their houses energy efficient. People were taking advantage of the insulation or solar panels. I find house design quite fascinating and have designed a couple myself that have been built and sold. They were solid houses and very cool in summer with no summer sun touching the windows throughout the summer. In the winter the living areas were warmed by the sun. They had double glazing and the the roof spaces were insulated. I would have liked each house to have a roof window so more of the winter sun came in and warmed the solid walls. That way you could also open the roof windows during summer and let any heat out through the roof.

I thought you might find this article interesting JessM.

"Characteristics of Corrugated Metal Roofing
A corrugated metal roof is one of the strongest kinds around, so tough that it has an expected life of around 50 plus years. Corrugated metal sheet roofing is also extremely weather proof, and can withstand extreme weather conditions such as hailstorm, heat, snow, storms, and even hurricanes, as they are able to contract and relax with heat. Galvanized corrugated metal roofing is also non-combustible and fire resistant, and contrary to common doubts, is the safest roofing option for lightning strike prone areas. Furthermore, corrugated metal roofing is environmentally friendly and is completely recyclable. It is also able to reflect some of the sun’s rays, and can hence partially reduce your heating and cooling bills. Another important advantage of corrugated metal roofing is that it is lightweight, which not only puts less stress on the underlying walls and materials, but also means that it doesn’t require much framework and support. The lightweight also makes installing corrugated metal roofing a simple and therefore inexpensive process."

They really are not hot to touch on a hot day. Also during winter D2 and I were watching a football match. The sun came out and it was quite warm and I had on black jeans. I had to move out of the sun as my legs were starting to get really hot even though it was a mild day. Black clothes attract the heat.

According to this article, 125 scientists have written to the UN General Secretary, Ban Ki-Moon and said that:

"Policy actions that aim to reduce CO2 emissions are unlikely to influence future climate. Policies need to focus on preparation for, and adaptation to, all dangerous climatic events, however caused"

They say a few more interesting things too, things that challenge the orthodoxy.

Down to 21 gracesmum {restrains self from doing multiple punctuation points} ... what is it normally?
Faye my DS worked on Kevin Rudd's short-lived insulation grant scheme.... there are a lot that aren't insulated as well I hear as there was a lot of demand for the grants while they lasted.
Insulation in NZ is certainly an outlandish notion. (We do tough out here mate! What do you want heating for? Man up!)
I have seen them building new houses in Wellington with walls about 4cm thick and no insulation.I think their building regs are focussed on earthquakes (if your house is very flimsy and it falls on you...)
I agree that a silver corrugated iron roof is cooler than one painted black. However if it is made of metal it will heat up in the hot sun even if it is new and shiny, and half the heat will radiate downwards into the house.
I cannot think of a worse material to put on a roof from that point of view. Also very noisy when it rains. I think it probably developed because it was easy to do and cheap compared to any kind of tile.
I knew i had been in NZ a while when I started looking at corrugated iron roofed (or even walled) houses and muttering "that's cute".

"A new paper published in the European Physical Journal finds that there has been no increase in extreme weather in central Europe over the past 250 years. Furthermore, the paper finds that extreme weather decreased in the Greater Alpine Region of Europe over the past 30 years in comparison to the preceding 30 year period. The paper adds to many other peer-reviewed papers demonstrating that global warming does not increase extreme weather as claimed by climate alarmists."

More info plus references here

According to the Met Office, as reported in today's paper, global warming is slowing down although this year will be the ninth warmest on record. 2012 has apparently been cooler than average for the past decade too. It certainly was here last night causing me to creep downstairs shortly after 3 and put the heating on! I am going to try that thing of having it on continuously but with the thermostat turned down to 21. The house is well insulated and the plumber who services the boiler said they recommend it.
Grace likes it too.

Corrugated iron roofing is the coolest JessM, it reflects the heat, a black roof increases the temperature and makes the air in the roof space unbearable on a hot day. Insulation is used in most houses in Australia.

Verandahs are certainly a good 'shading' feature Faye - but corrugated iron roofs?
Things like loft insulation will/would help to keep houses cool in summer - particularly important when so many houses are single storey. Not sure if it is at all common over there though. It is very common here as it is the cheapest and easiest way to save heat and keep the house more cosy.
One of the saving graces of UK housing is that we have long built and still often build terraces and semi detached housing - much more energy efficient because there is so much less surface area. I know they is viewed as an abomination in Australia and NZ and are rarely seen. Everyone wants their unique, detached property.

Actually, Arctic ice is refreezing at the moment, as you know. Last winter it reached the thirty year average that is supposed to be 'normal' (NB thirty years is not much). arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/observation_images/ssmi1_ice_area.png

And here is an article to make you think. It is about global energy poverty.

It is a very dry heat and usually gets Adelaide weather a day later but a bit hotter. Perth is a bit milder in winter and summer than Adelaide. It is interesting if you build a house in an environmentally friendly way they can be really cool in summer and warm in winter without the need for airconditioning, maybe a bit of heating though. The pioneers knew what they were doing, they originally built their houses with verandahs to keep out the hot summer sun.

It is scary, I can guess what is going to happen.

And yes the Arctic is melting fast, and he permafrost stuff is scary. One of the great unknowns.

Hi Faye that sounds uncomfortable! Is it dry or humid heat where you are?
My little brood do not enjoy the humidity of NSW - they are going back to low humidity Perth in a few weeks, where housing cheaper!
I have experienced the summer heat in Perth - you can't really go out in the day, unless it is in an airconditioned car to the mall.
I was shocked that lots of Australians have no air-conditioning.

Oops www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/where-even-the-earth-is-melting-20121127-2a5tp.html.

The outside temperature today is 45C which is 113 Fahrenheit. In the last twelve years we have experienced above average temperatures. Last year it was a more normal summer with a few days up to 37 (100F) and was mostly pleasant. When the temperaturesa are extremely high it reminds me that we are probably past the tipping point. I found this article in the SMH this morning very interesting. http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/where-even-the-earth-is-melting-20121127-2a5tp.html

carbon it's very obvious that some people are serial deniers. They have either been influenced by the propaganda put out by the oil companies or denying due to fear of the future. I can understand this.
The oil companies have huge resources at their command and a few tame scientists. The videos and websites are very cleverly targeted. Had I not had a degree in Environmental Studies I could easily have been taken in.
But even allowing for this there is the fear of the consequences facing our grandchildren if they are wrong. This is powerful.
It is almost impossible to change entrenched views.

There are problems with sustainable energy that have yet to be ironed out, but sometimes I wonder if people actually want these embryo technologies to fail. Why I cannot hazard a guess ????

The blue text links to a picture and short article about how wind turbines affect cloud formation, and therefore local weather close to them, and therefore, possibly, climate. New research going on all the time, you see, and new stuff being found out. Climate change, and the part we play in it is not simple.

pardon?

Another human climate forcing: wind turbines and clouds

I urge you all to watch Jodi's video. Especially Bags. Take particular notice of "amplifying feedbacks" which explain how the deniers have twisted the science. Its impossible to understand climate change if you do not understand feedbacks and tipping points.
I'm not even going to mention NY

www.ted.com/talks/james_hansen_why_i_must_speak_out_about_climate_change.html

Please be warned and do NOT watch if you are sensitive on the issue of global warming. Also it runs for about 20 minutes.

www.ted.com/talks/james_hansen_why_i_must_speak_out_about_climate_change.html

I just want to say that I have followed this thread and looked at all the links, then thought about what I have read – sometime carried on thinking about for quite a long time. I don't find it all boring, by the way. However, I feel my extreme ignorance of the subject prevents me from posting.