ash tree disease

The larches around here (western Scotland) have been looking particularly lovely this autumn as their leaves have changed colour. Well, they always do look lovely actually.

Well, I'm glad the Forestry Commission is 'onto' the larch and Scots pine disease, but we shouldn't really be surprised that plants get diseases. A certain amount is inevitable.

Forgot to post link

www.forestry.gov.uk/newsrele.nsf/WebNewsReleases/47B4C4FDDC42FA43802579B30057DF9E

Now there is a problem with larch trees and to a lesser degree the Scots Pine.

The FC is a government department and are, sadly, constrained by said buffoons over what they may, or may not do. The FC staff DID alert government and I understand they did offer sound advice; which the government declined to take. Video below to help identify ash tree disease.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sI7hgFZ-4g

Yes, in the empty spaces left by the ashes.

They need to start planting other species, asap. Preferably from saplings grown in the UK!

And where were the Woodland Trust, the Forestry Commission, etc when we needed them? They must have known this disease was at our doorstep, as it were. So they write the odd letter to that buffoon, tory, ass, Owen Paterson (who,is too busy organising badger culls to take any notice) and then sit back and let it happen.
Could they not have alerted the press, environment groups, started a campaign, ANYTHING Useless lot of idiots

Any of you who are stuck for Christmas presents, I think the Woodland Trust will need a lot of help next year. They plant a lot of saplings, many of them being Ash.

It always happens JessM. Stream of consciousness or adjacent neurons or something.

Hello allie - you lot are beavering away well off topic aren't you.
Well your ash sapling's leaves will be dying off right now allie due to autumn. Apparently vertical scarring is a sign you can see in the winter.
What cheered me up today was to see a really big field maple. A rare sight I think. It was as big as a fairly grown-up oak and looked stunning with its leaves all yellow. I have always tended to think of this lovely native as a hedgerow shrub rather than something that can grow into a full sized tree.

Thank you, elegran. Yes please!

Re my ash sapling - it was ok when I identified it...and is now looking rather sick, with brown patches on leaves....

A sort of answer, Bags. There are apparently discussions still ongoing about what kind of beavers should be re-introduced into Scotland. The ones from Norway in the trial were stipulated by the Scottish government as being most similar to the ones that had died out/been hunted to extinction (I sense the hand of Mr Salmond there). All kinds of things are being recorded and examined to see the effects on everything from water quality to introduced pathogens to assess what the next move should be.

Bavaria had no history of beavers of their own, so chose a dozen Norwegian, a dozen Fench and so on, so they have a mixture.

Teaching packs on the beaver project were handed out to us. I was cheeky and asked for a second one, which I shall post to you if you will pm me your address.

Here is a co-incidence - today my animal science course lecture is on the beavers. I will try to raise that very question and see what answers I get.

I suspect most of the disapproval is because the Tayside release was without any controls or records, and the "They did not even research the nearest match to the originals" was secondary.

Last week the subject was the re-introduction of water voles, almost wiped out by mink escapees, which are slim enough to follow the voles into what they thought was the safety of their burrow. Otters also catch and eat them, but do not fit into the tunnels, so have to give up and find something else (or a slower and less alert vole) Altering their habitat by planting tree plantations right up to the edge of streams did them no favours either. Tree planting is now done more sensitively and mink are detected and removed The voles are starting to thrive again.

True, but has that been identified as a problem in this case?

If the hybrids are sterile like mules it doesn't help evolution along.

I agree, jeni. Nothing like a bit of hybrid vigour for helping evolution along.

The govt. tried to sell off the forests, and all the time they knew about this disease. Not that I believe in conspiracy theory.

Yes, they do want genetic diversity when they breed animals in captivity, so that reintroduced populations are better able to survive. That is what the stud books are for, not to keep "pure" and inbreed, which loses the genetic characteristics which make strong flexible groups.

But they do not want populations which have completely separated to merge and lose their characteristics.

Take zebras. You would probably think a zebra is a zebra is a zebra, most useful as the last animal in an alphabet book.

But there are three species of zebras: the plains zebra, the Grévy's zebra and the mountain zebra. The plains zebra and the mountain zebra belong to the subgenus Hippotigris, but Grévy's zebra is the sole species of subgenus Dolichohippus . The latter resembles an ass, to which it is closely related, while the former two are more horse-like. All three belong to the genus Equus along with other living equids, but their lifestyles differ.

Like most members of the horse family, zebras are highly social. Their social structure, however, depends on the species. Mountain zebras and plains zebras live in groups, known as 'harems', consisting of one stallion with up to six mares and their foals. Bachelor males either live alone or with groups of other bachelors until they are old enough to challenge a breeding stallion. When attacked by packs of hyenas or wild dogs a zebra group will huddle together with the foals in the middle while the stallion tries to ward them off.

Unlike the other zebra species, Grevy's zebras do not have permanent social bonds. A group of these zebras rarely stays together for more than a few months. The foals stay with their mothers, while adult males live alone. Like the other two zebra species, bachelor male zebras will organize in groups. Plains and mountain zebra foals are protected by their mothers, as well as the head stallion and the other mares in their group. Grevy's zebra foals have only their mother as a regular protector, since Grevy's zebra groups often disband after a few months.

When they are promiscuously interbred in captivity, the offspring are not representative of their original populations, so are able neither to fit in if released nor to serve as examples if kept.

(A lot of this description of zebras came from Wikipedia - must remember to quote sources )

I think they want a large gene pool but within a geographical and subspecies limit. The Scottish wildcats are an example. "No angry tabby or feral the wildcat is a genuine wild species of cat; it was here long before we were and long before the domestic cat had even evolved." Unfortunately it can interbreed with domestic cats - the two species are not yet separate enough to make interbreeding impossible, and there a lot of feral cats about. So the dilution of its genes with moggy genes mean that it will become extinct, probably in the near future.

African and Asiatic lions are also distinct species, but are near enough to interbreed, as can the two types of elephants (and also lions and tigers, though in nature they would never meet up. Ligers and tions were a freak novelty once, but I think the hybrids were infertile.)

This tends to remind me of a certain moustached bloke who advocated ' pure' genetic stock!
Nature thrives on mutations.

'

But! Surely a larger gene pool is a good thing?

Same eurasian species but a different genetic population. The Norwegian ones are closer to the original Scottish ones, which is what they want to approximate to. Maybe the land bridge to Europe made them nearer relations. I am not well up on the details, but an animal geneticist was distinctly scathing about the random introduction of beavers by amateurs.

These days they are pretty careful about what strain of animals they introduce, or use for captive breeding programmes. For instance they used to allow breeding between African and Asian elephants but don't any more, and no zoo can keep African and Asiatic lions in the same establishment, let alone the same enclosure.

There are international stud books for all the species that are being bred in captivity, and individuals are matched up with suitable mates. Sometimes the best choice is from a zoo far away, and at the other extreme really successful breeders whose genes are in danger of being over-represented in the breeding population are put on the pill and not allowed to have any more offspring.

Re beavers: 'were' native is right. In my opinion they have no place in the landscape that we have now. With a bit of luck, infected ash trees will turn out to be poisonous for beavers. I used to enjoy Knapdale. Now it is a playground for 'expert' hobbyists with a God complex.

Wels are a monstrous catfish which was introduced to some still waters quite a few years ago. They are reminiscent of a dustbin with teeth and a tail. There are several more recent aquatic aliens.