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"Another kick in the teeth for Malthus"

(19 Posts)
Bags Sun 25-Nov-12 21:13:57

This looks interesting. I wonder how it will pan out.

jeni Sun 25-Nov-12 21:19:29

Add in, seaweed farming in Indonesia.
There might be hop for the planet yet

Greatnan Mon 26-Nov-12 07:34:27

We should put this on the thread about large families!

JessM Mon 26-Nov-12 08:01:40

Interesting the way he links it to Malthus rather than current levels of malnutrition isn't it hmm is he a rabid anti-birthcontroller?
This is indeed interesting. Transport might be an issue for this business. I was watching something on Australian TV about the fact that aboriginal people living in remote communities often have access only to one expensive shop that sells no fruit or veg.
Bit like some Uk council estates, only more so. (yes there is one 5 miles from here, with several shops but no fruit and veg on sale at all!)

absentgrana Mon 26-Nov-12 08:36:02

JessM I don't, by any means, always agree with everything Walter Russell Mead has to say (invading Iraq for example) but I don't think he is a rabid anything. That was a rather harsh conclusion that you leapt to.

JessM Mon 26-Nov-12 08:55:26

I am not acquainted. I just wondered why he had used Malthus as the hook for this bit of journalism. And whether he had an agenda that accounted for the choice.
Maybe he just thinks that currently hungry people, or the reduction of the use of fossil fuels by agriculture, or the possibility of new low carbon agri-businesses for desert nations etc etc are not interesting enough? hmm again

Greatnan Mon 26-Nov-12 09:03:00

Or perhaps he has a relative with a large family and is fed up with their being painted as immoral?

I am interested in the aborigine diet - would fruit and vegetables normally play a big part in it, in their natural environment? If there was sufficient demand, would not somebody start supplying it? I must check out the situation with Maoris.

annodomini Mon 26-Nov-12 09:11:23

Greatnan, I doubt if Maoris would claim kinship with Australian aborigines who have been in Australia for much longer than Maoris have been in NZ.

absentgrana Mon 26-Nov-12 09:14:13

There aren't really any remote communities in NZ in the same way as there are in Oz.

JessM Mon 26-Nov-12 10:17:21

Yes incredibly much longer. Maoris came from Pacific and only there in NZ for about a thousand years or so I think.
They do have worse health than white NZers - about 10 years less life expectancy (they are not all super fit All Blacks!) - most of the govt health education stuff is aimed at ethnic minorities (Maoris plus other recent Pacific migrants) Govt also shell out for people doing "traditional healing". (Politics eh?)
In Australia the health situation is much worse - 20 year difference between black and white life expectancy!!!! (This is not I think down to lack of fruit and veg. There are many much more serious issues, starting with extreme poverty)

Bags Mon 26-Nov-12 11:00:09

Poverty is what makes the biggest differences to health and life expectancy everywhere.

JessM Mon 26-Nov-12 11:50:28

Yup indeed. Big differences in life expectancy between the richest and poorest in this country.
I remember about 20 years ago, going to a lecture, I think it was on the Black report and the speaker said : There is only one disease that is more common in rich people in this country - melanoma.

Greatnan Mon 26-Nov-12 12:06:20

The day after I arrived in NZ for the first time was Waitangi day and we went to the Maori village. We were given an excellent history lecture, and shown traditional singing and dancing. I was very interested and my daughter lent me several books about their customs and lifestyle. I wasn't implying that they were the same as aborigines.
There are some aspects of life in NZ with which I am not comfortable, such as the separate career opportunities offered to Maoris, which seems to me to limit their aspirations and my daughter has also encountered the usual moronic racists, but I have lived in France for ten years, so I am used to them. (Not to mention those in Britain).

JessM Mon 26-Nov-12 17:07:07

There is an interesting political system - basically the Maori's have a balance of power and both parties court their support. So they get things like subsidised college courses i believe. Not to mention the subsidised "healers".
What separate career opportunities?

annodomini Mon 26-Nov-12 17:35:22

Anyone who has a drop of Maori blood is counted as a Maori, I understand. This will include my two little great nieces whose mum is half Maori. A considerable proportion of the population will one day have Maori blood.

JessM Mon 26-Nov-12 18:57:23

If they want to be anno - friend of mine has a Maori dad, she does not herself see herself as Maori. Little welsh/kiwi baby girls. smile
Another friend has Maori mum and dad was from England. She does see herself as Maori and told me feels her ancestors are always with her. Her husband is white kiwi and her brother is half Maori half Japanese. It is hard to keep up sometimes. And impossible to tell looking at someone whether they consider themselves Maori or not.
In some areas there are financial advantages to being Maori - it all goes back to the treaty of Waitangi , land rights, fishing rights etc.
I guess Kiwis can also tell the difference between Maoris, Samoans, Fijians etc - but this is tricky. If they have a great big grass mat tied like a wide round their mid sections that is a clue (Samoan I think, not Maori). Tattooed chin in middle aged women - yes! Maori elder. Easy.
But I look the All Blacks and can't guess. (gazing on the All Blacks is never arduous though is it)
I guess Uk people can often tell the difference between West Indians and Africans and kiwis would struggle.

Oh if you've got a name like All Black Ma'a Nonu - apostrophe in the middle - that's Samoan.

Greatnan Mon 26-Nov-12 19:02:59

I would have to ask my daughter to explain the education system again, but I gathered that Maori children are encouraged to study rural subjects.
( I don't think I can tell someone from Africa apart from a West Indian by sight, I might tell by their speech).

FlicketyB Mon 26-Nov-12 20:37:24

I read about this in one of the Sunday papers but it occurs to me it only works on coastal locations with deserts. Not much use if you live in Mali, Chad or those other desperately poor central African countries. Come to that wouldnt help those in countries like Bangladesh which tends to devastating floods, or mountainous seismic areas like Japan or Pakistan etc etc.

Yes, its a great idea and will be very helpful in Middle East countries but its not a world saver in itself. It can only be used in limited places.

JessM Tue 27-Nov-12 17:16:55

Yes quite flickety
Re spotting Africans - I went out for a walk earlier. I only saw one other human on foot. A very wrapped up not very tall African man, smart business clothes, coat, standing talking on his mobile in the middle of the path. African a fair bet where I live. And he was talking an African language on the phone which confirmed.
But, even if silent, the giveaway was:
He was wearing an extraordinary hat!
Dark brown crocheted beanie, with a matching set of long woolly braids dangling from the back of it. The perfect accompaniment to business dress.
No West Indian would be seen dead...