The floods have arrived

The EA passed responsibility for managing smaller rivers and streams to the riparian owners about 10 years ago. So maintaining many streams etc is in the hands of thousands of people, who may have no more than 50 foot of bank to a river at the end of their garden and are probably completely unaware of their responsibility.

In our village there is a team of contractors who go round regularly and clear the many streams and ditches that run through the village and do not form property boundaries but in the next parish, down river from us, the main stream runs through the land of the local stately home owner. The family, who have been there about 400 years, are seriously short of money and the main house is on the 'Heritage at Risk' register because of its poor condition. The land surrounding the house is in equally poor condition and, presumably, they cannot afford to get contractors in to clear the river, so water backs up and floods fields in our parish. For most of the last year, 2 footpaths I used to walk have been unusable because of the flooding - and that was before this winter's rain.

My father's family were farmers and they would plough one way one year, the other the next. It depends on who is doing the ploughing. But one thing they always did was keep the hedges and ditches cleared, which isn't always done nowadays. It created a mini-canal network that kept all the rainwater flowing to the rivers. Unfortunately some of them became contained within the boundaries of private homes as farm cottages were sold off, and they would often fill in the ditches to gain more garden. Or run drainage pipes through them, which are nowhere near as capable of carrying a flash flood away.

Thought so, but I have passed fields with a gentle slope which would not have tipped over a machine (unless it was top-heavy and badly balanced) and seen the vertical furrows.

It really depends on the steepness of the hill, Elegran. Farmers prefer to plough along hillsides to conserve water and to stop rainwater washing the soil away. Sometimes they have no option but to plough up and down because otherwise, tractors would be in danger of tipping over.

I remember being told as a child that farmers ploughed their fields along hillsides rather than up and down them, to stop the water all rushing straight down to the bottom. Do they still do that?

I can understand why farmers create big fields, but it would certainly help round here if there were more hedges again - they trap the debris that blocks the drainage system and their root system helps to stop the earth running away downhill and causing more blockages.

Getting a bit fed up of 'farmer bashing' in general. A lot of the media really have no clue, perhaps we should introduce a compulsory sort of 'kibbutz' system in this country!

Flickety and Margaret

I agree with you. I think the comments from some point me in the direction of this being country against town. I said on a post somewhere before, now a few going on, people will be shocked ' if' their milk and meat etc., rise in price. They think the water goes down, the grass grows, you buy a cow or two and bob' s your uncle, job done.

Well we will have to disagree about the reporting of the Hull floods, Flickety. There was plenty on local TV, but the national media were much more taken up with the Severn (Tewkesbury if I remember rightly). My niece certainly didn't see hordes of reporters.

They are farmers FlicketyB, why should anyone care? They only produce our food.

Mamie I remember the Hull floods, they were extensively reported in the newspapers and television and in the months afterwards there were a lot of follow up articles. I took particular interest in this as I had friends living in Hull who came close to being flooded, the road was flooded but it didn't quite reach the houses.

I think newspapers are very casual in the areas they write about. They are making hay over the Berkshire floods this week and took no notice of the Oxfordshire floods last week, even though there were about five villages flooded, including my own, within a few miles from the DM's printing plant in Didcot.

The floods in Oxfordshire have also been here since Christmas but unlike Somerset it cannot be blamed on any failure by any organisation. Like other areas this is the third successive year this has happened. Oxfordshire is an arable farming area and local farmers have had land too wet to work for over 9 months in the last two years. In the last two summers we have seen fields with large areas without a crop because the land is too wet and seed has either been destroyed or failed to germinate and there are fields in our immediate area that have been left unharvested because the land was to wet to get machinery on to, again this has happened in two successive years. It is not surprising that the crop that many local farmers are now planting are photovoltaic arrays. three only about a mile form my house, and as many again within three or four miles.

I have just read a report on another forum from someone who lives in Berkshire village that has had a lot of media attention. She says that the Daily Mail reports that the village has been flooded three times in a decade (it hasn't) and that they are walking around in raw sewage (they aren't). She said that yesterday the village was full of canoes being dragged along the tarmac for the benefit of the media circus.
I think it is important to take a more measured and long-term view of what is happening without being swayed by sensationalist reporting.
Blame is everywhere, but these are exceptional circumstances which are sadly likely to become much more common.
Everybody has a responsibility here and it includes governments who fail to invest in flood management, people who bury their heads in the sand over climate change, people who demand cuts to public services then blame and complain when the services are not there, developers who build on flood plains. The huge financial investment in the south of England, with demand for more and more houses, will not help.

Not long ago I remember watching a television programme showing people trying to clear vast balls of mainly accumulated fat and wetwipes from the sewers. Another aspect of flooding to be considered?

A few years ago, my niece's house and many hundreds of houses around hers, were badly flooded. Their houses were seriously damaged and they lived in a caravan in their front garden for almost a year. Their plight was only briefly on the national news, no television reporters walked the streets in waders. When we told people what was happening they were amazed.
Why was nobody very interested? Because they live in Hull, which is deeply inconvenient for the media circus.
I feel dreadfully sorry for people who have been so badly flooded, but I think a more measured and sensible approach to flood management is needed. The media response seems hysterical and unconsidered and cannot ultimately be helpful to anyone.
The sight of politicians trying to blame everyone but themselves is a very unedifying one. If you cut budgets and services then the resources will not be there when you need them. Actions have consequences.

And without all the mudslinging and blame culture which could ensue.

I do hope that we can find some spirit of unity throughout the country. Unfortunately, I feel that a culture of 'we need help more than they do' is already beginning to emerge. I was dismayed today to hear someone saying that the Thames Valley needed more help than the Somerset Levels because there are 6 million people at risk in the Thames Valley, and that the Levels are below sea level, are less densely populated and should have known what to expect if they must live there. They did not seem to grasp the fact that the people on the Levels had been pleading for help for some weeks before it arrived, that yes, they are below sea level but it should have been managed better over the last decades. Also that the Thames valley IS a Valley with a flood plain which has been extensively built on.
When they built a couple of thousand new homes in our town they relied on linking into the existing drainage system which caused problems as it was totally inadequate.

There is so much that needs looking at, that is why we need 'joined up'plans and sensible management with input from local people and people who really know how to tackle the problems.
I feel sorry for anyone in this predicament, but do hope it is a not going to be a case of whoever shouting loudest getting most help.

no-one is saying anything about a quick fix but it is part of a joined up number of measures which we will need in the future

Trees don't suck up much water in the winter - because most british woodland has no leaves in the winter and therefore does not transpire. I think wooded hillsides have other benefits - slow down run off - but it certainly aint a quick fix is it.

Proper Joined-Up Government? But without the heel dragging that would inevitably follow

It's obvious that re-foresting would be part of the solution, but with the decimation of the Forestry Commission and successive governments ignoring the advice of the FC I'm not sure this will change anything. Rather than focusing on the Environment Agency I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the role of DEFRA in all this; they are experts at micro managing for mediocrity, but have insufficient links to local authorities and (some) staff are completely out of touch with reality. I think now would be a good time to have a complete review of the status and responsibilities of Defra.

I don't blame people for staying put rather than being evacuated. There's no way I'd leave my home to the mercy of low life looters. If it's safe enough for someone to wade through the water, help themselves to treasured possessions and carry them out through the floods then it's safe enough to live upstairs and protect your home. Obviously the elderly and infirm should not be put at risk.

There have been news clips of army personnel filling sandbags but I hope someone is organising night time patrols because then they really would be doing something useful.

Strange how all MPs feel the need to go down there and see for themselves. Fortunately the rest of us believe what we see on TV.

Watched sky news this am. A caver took a reporter down some caves under the Mendips. The water from the hills is rushing constantly through the caves at the moment, and is deposited further down causing more flooding.

Which begs the question - if the hills were planted with trees would they absorb much of this water (Monbiot report - mentioned on another thread I think)

I think we have to try and do both, whitewave, getting the balance right is the problem, but a much larger budget would be the first step. However, looking at the devastation to homes and businesses one wonders what the final cost to the economy will be. Apart from the devastation to people's lives.
The EA been working within the restrictions placed upon them by EU, government and pressure groups and their own top echelons; I don' t think anyone should blame the staff who probably knew what needed to be done but were frustrated in their efforts to carry out the work

Oh I seem to have been very late in answering - forgot to read the rest of the stuff

"iam64" Dredging would help the situation and get rid of about a further 4% of the flood water, so it is clear that it is not the final solution. As for the wildlife, the EA has a legal duty to replace wildlife habitats it displaces as a result of flood defense - So the choice is do we defend our houses/businesses and let the wildlife go to hell or do we mitigate it by replacing the habitats and ensuring our precious wildlife is cared for.

Raining here again today, but not heavily.Opened the back door to find a drenched moggy on the doormat [not mine!]it belongs to next door, but for some unfathomable reason likes to spend time on my doormat outside. In Summer it strolls through the house [when door is open] it doesn't seem to want anything but a kind word.