Why Engineers?

Gransnet broadens the mind (and the behind, from all that sitting at the keyboard)

Ooh, that's a new one to me! I learn new and exciting things every day on gransnet!

about as refined as onmyown, it seems.

What refined company you keep Elegran

Onmyown The nearest I have ever heard to engineer being a term for gay is the use of the rhyming slang "bumhole engineer" for a queer.

The word 'fanatic' has been shortened to 'fan'.

Does that mean, for example, 'fans' of Elvis, the Rolling Stones or No Direction (sorry, One Direction) are fanatical, possibly engineers and possibly off to join terrorist groups?

Research can be made to show whatever you wish it to show and statistics can be manipulated.

I agree, janea

Why should a sociologist be 'exalted' when an engineer with a Masters or PhD and a fantastic job is not?
Does, for example, Imperial College only offer vocational courses?

onmyown I have only just read this thread. I have to say that apart from never previously having heard the suggestion that "engineer" is a slang term for homosexual, the idea that one of the most extreme Islamist groups in the world would particularly appeal to gay men seems laughable.

"Engineers’ political leanings could be the result of their anti-intellectual vocational education that instead of producing a sceptical frame of mind, trains engineers to use rather than to produce knowledge.."

I think many engineers would have the same view of sociologists from the University of Oxford, as these exalted beings appear to have of the humble, easily indoctrinated engineer.

Why do the sociologists think that an engineering education and a sceptical frame of mind are mutually exclusive?
And most vocational courses teach students to use knowledge. There wouldn't be any point in them if they didn't. It doesn't preclude the students from going into research to further the knowledge base.

If religion suddenly seems logical because of a "lightbulb moment" then it is "logical" (credible, more probably) only to the individual involved and whomsoever he or she may persuade to listen.

"Lightbulb moments" and logic are not concepts that sit together easily, if at all.

Not for the first time I am so pleased to be "ordinary" and non intellectual. And apologies to any one who feels,perhaps, insulted by this broad generalisation.

Religion can be thought of as "logical" once you think you have had a lightbulb moment.
And there are books of precise rules to follow.

As I have married into a family of extremely well-read and intelligent and well-educated engineers, I find that an appalling generalisation. It is a fact that those with Asperger's are drawn to engineering, but actually they are drawn to anything logical and ordered. Religion does not come into that category, does it. It is illogical for an engineer to believe in something he cannot see or work with.

I agree, pompa

But who works it out in the first place? Surely it must be engineers?

"trains engineers to use rather than to produce knowledge".

I would agree with that statement, however if we consider some of our great engineers like Brunell or Watt, the novel way in which they used and combined the materials and technology of the day to produce new products and projects was truly outstanding.

pompa As an engineer, what frustrated me, accountants. You sound like DH
We also have accountants in the family.
We are a mixed bunch.

I was going to say shades of black and white and no shades of grey but I thought it would start you all off.

pompa DH is (well, was) an engineer and is also a natural leader and was in his career. However, he does get frustrated with people who are not interested in the physics/mechanics of how things work; I am not sure if this is typical of engineers. He is also good at DIY - perhaps that comes with a practical background.
We also have a very highly qualified female engineer in the family, but I'm not sure what her DIY skills are like!

Perhaps engineers see the world in shades of black and white, right or wrong? After all, engineering has to be precise or catastrophe could occur.

Interesting post, crun, thank you.

I think this is a pertinent quote:

"engineers’ political leanings could be the result of their anti-intellectual vocational education that instead of producing a sceptical frame of mind, trains engineers to use rather than to produce knowledge.........Hayek made a strong case for the peculiarity of the engineering mentality, which in his view is the result of an education which does not train them to understand individuals and their world as the outcome of a social process in which spontaneous behaviours and interactions play a significant part. Rather, it fosters on them a script in which a strict ‘rational’ control of processes plays the key role: this would make them on the one hand less adept at dealing with the confusing causality of the social and political realms and the compromise and circumspection that these entail, and on the other hand inclined to think that societies should operate orderly akin to well-functioning machines"

This is basically the same argument that is used to explain why people with Asperger's Syndrome have a particular liking and talent for engineering, but people on the ASD spectrum have no more tendency toward crime than the general population.

It reminds me of the doctor who, when I told him I'm an engineer, also said that engineers are all neurotics who can't cope with conflicting information.

In my experience, there are a lot of non-engineers who have a misconception of what engineering is.

I can't comment on Muslim countries, but in the UK most large businesses are controlled by investors and in turn accountants, profit rules.

Why would there be fewer opportunities for advancement for engineers in Muslim countries than for other professions? Why would say, lawyers or doctors, or any other profession, have more life chances?

An interesting answer, soontobe.

I am just trying out being devil's advocate or iconoclastic here.

I have no direct involvement in this kind of subtext or alternative dialogue, but I was (unwillingly) introduced to it in recent years, and retain an interest in its possible applications.

An interesting answer, soontobe.

I am just trying out being devil's advocate or iconoclastic here.

I have no direct involvement in this kind of subtext or alternative dialogue, but I was (unwillingly) introduced to it in recent years, and retain an interest in its possible applications.

Debate away, don't worry about me, I am neither n extremist or gay. I would also say that IMO, engineers are rarely political animals.
As an engineer, what frustrated me, accountants.