Are We Being Told the Truth About Climate Change?

Thanks for the links Alegrias so wanted to respond. The BBC history was interesting - mix of politics and science. Yes, as I acknowledged, there is compelling evidence for global warming, there is strong correlation between CO2 levels and global temperature and we may have a theory that links the two. The 'explanation' was a bit better, talking about absorption effects rather than reflection (i.e. as glass in a greenhouse works). However, these are small numbers. I appreciate the analogy with poisons but this is a complex system. Is all this still relying on the 1955's model?

Overall it is sensible for governments to err on the side of caution and limit CO2 production. As a Christian it is good that if we are believe we are damaging the planet we should try to put it right. Mind you, being 'sinners', I also expect we'll make a whole set of new problems...

Should we be complacent? The video I noted makes an argument that much of the 'green energy' initiatives will not stop CO2 emissions. It is more about big business cashing in. Maybe Discodancer has the solution - lets go back to living in mud huts and scratching a humble living off the land.

One last thought from this sceptic, with regards to correlation between CO2 and global temperatures - one piece of scientific evidence (from a reputable source) reports these figures for the last 800,000 years:

www.ncdc.noaa.gov/global-warming/temperature-change

Looking at this graph I see:

1. CO2 and temperature generally follow each other (correlation) but in some places temperature falls before CO2 levels!

2. No-one was burning fossil fuels 100,000 years ago so where does the change in CO2 come from? So now I am reading about how the oceans absorb and release CO2. "As temperatures rise, carbon dioxide leaks out of the ocean". "...turns out that the world is not a simple place."
earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/OceanCarbon

Think I'll leave it there. Been good food for thought. Thank you. Now off to burn my cuttings.

(P.S. Elegran God is very much interested in our lives here today on earth which is why in my first post I stated ^the world has bigger problems such as poverty, famine, disease and human suffering^)

Alegrias1

I'm not sending anybody anything that would give away my real name, you'll have to take it on faith

I understand. Keep safe.

I'm not sending anybody anything that would give away my real name, you'll have to take it on faith

Alegrias1

No, I'd rather not, I don't want to out myself, but thank you for asking.

It's here though: www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/renewable-energy-sources . Works well in sunny places

But this is your chance Alegrias. You’ve offered it, so why back out now? I don’t want to go to one of your many links. You’ve told us, what you’re ‘doing about it’. (Yes, toad, I did mean now. Not years ago, left on a shelf collecting dust.)

If this is ‘ what you’re doing about it ‘, then let’s see it. I promise you I am genuinely interested, because I wouldn’t know where to start changing things personally, apart from the few things on my list.

What happened to your work?

Just posted.

The planet has been here for billions of years, we've been here for what...a few hundred thousand? The planet will continue long after we've gone. It might be uninhabitable, but it will keep turning and doing its thing, just like Venus and all the others.

DiscoDancer1975

Alegrias1

So no...I don’t need to worry, or do anything.
And that's why we're doomed.

What are you doing about it?
Shall I send you a copy of the patents for the alternative energy sources I worked on?

The planet will be fine, by the way. Its humanity which is in trouble. (I had another word, but decided it was too rude.)

Please do send me your info. Seriously...I’d like to read it. My husband, who is a scientist can explain it to me. Would you pm it though?

Don’t worry about being too rude, I’m sure I’ve heard much worse!!

Alegrias, disco asked you ‘ what are you doing about it?’. I assumed she means now. You say you ‘ worked on’ alternative energy. That, I’m assuming is what you did about it. So years ago? What happened to your work?

‘ The planet will be fine’. So we’re not damaging it so as to make it uninhabitable? Nothing is changing on the planet? I thought that was the whole point. Then we would cease to exist because of it. So confusing.

Thank the Lord for God. He’s made it so much easier.

No, I'd rather not, I don't want to out myself, but thank you for asking.

It's here though: www.edfenergy.com/for-home/energywise/renewable-energy-sources . Works well in sunny places

Alegrias1

^So no...I don’t need to worry, or do anything.^
And that's why we're doomed.

What are you doing about it?
Shall I send you a copy of the patents for the alternative energy sources I worked on?

The planet will be fine, by the way. Its humanity which is in trouble. (I had another word, but decided it was too rude.)

Please do send me your info. Seriously...I’d like to read it. My husband, who is a scientist can explain it to me. Would you pm it though?

Don’t worry about being too rude, I’m sure I’ve heard much worse!!

My son was yabbering about alternative sources something about heat transference, I think - but it might not have been.

I nodded.

So no...I don’t need to worry, or do anything.
And that's why we're doomed.

What are you doing about it?
Shall I send you a copy of the patents for the alternative energy sources I worked on?

The planet will be fine, by the way. Its humanity which is in trouble. (I had another word, but decided it was too rude.)

Discodancer well said.

This thread is not quite three pages long, mostly the same posters. That alone shows, there’s more than 3%, who either don’t believe that humans can pull this planet to its knees, or don’t care.

They’ve seen various trials and tribulations throughout history, as far back as....dare I say it.....the Bible. Of course, not everyone believes the history books. However, still here we all are, going about our daily business, as people have done for centuries.

As a young woman, so not a Christian then, I still couldn’t fathom what was starting to be said. Us...insignificant humans were destroying a planet, which scientists told us, (and they had evidence for it), had been around for billions of years. Apparently with no problems until now!

Now, as a Christian, I understand God is in charge, and nothing is going to happen, until He says so. So no...I don’t need to worry, or do anything.

However, I understand completely, if you have no faith, you see it differently, and it would probably worry me too, were it not for the fact the earth seems to have survived so long before us.

So. What are you doing about it? Are you going to sit around and wait for the Government to do something? What is that by the way? Or are you going to start making small changes yourselves? Some things you could do:
1. Stop driving, shelve your cars.
2. No holidays unless you walk or cycle.
3. No lights on in your homes, except the room you’re sitting in.
4. Support local produce, or better still...grow your own.
5. Switch heating as low as you can.
6. Make sure your jobs, ( although realise this wouldn’t be applicable to many on here), are within walking distance to your home.

I’m sure there’s more. Instead of moaning about governments, if you really believe we are destroying our planet...do something, however small, to help. By your reckoning, that should be 97% of the population.

OK, I expect I'll get the usual chorus of disapproving comments about this...

I'm a scientist. I'm sceptical when necessary and I understand how to differentiate between valid science that doesn't follow the party line, and people who don't understand what they are talking about.

My area of expertise was related to alternative energy sources. In the years since I did my PhD in that subject, I'm sure it has moved on a lot. Don't try to pretend that you know what makes a good scientist and I don't.

Alegrias1

^There are conflicting opinions and some believe the emphasis on on CO2 gases is overplayed.^

Yes. The same 3% who think Climate Change isn't man made, I expect.

Skeptics are the perfect scientists.
Scientists must be sceptical.

just pointing out how curious people become scientists.

One or two are often ahead of the herd, and eventually what seems an unlikely idea, gathers momentum and becomes the next eureka moment.

Good discussion throws up interesting new (to me) knowledge.

???

Blimey?

Whitewavemark2

No serious difference between an overwhelming % of scientists but where it matters - politicians who make the decisions, just like during the pandemic, that is what will cause us to fail.

Yes, 100% yes. I agree.

No serious difference between an overwhelming % of scientists but where it matters - politicians who make the decisions, just like during the pandemic, that is what will cause us to fail.

The problem as I see it WWM2, is that if people don't believe that climate change is due to CO2, or don't think it is man made, then its an excuse to say that there is no point doing anything about it, its just natural and nothing we can do will help.

There really is no difference of opinion in serious scientists about the cause, what we can do about it is another matter.

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God. People won’t give up their ‘luxeries’ to help. On another thread we had the money Brandon spent on his space flight. Unless we all adopt a simpler lifestyle this planet is doomed.

We have the luxury (so far) of being able to disagree over climate change.

Those living in the actuality of it, where desertification is taking away a family’s ability to feed itself causing starvation, where the land is below sea level and year after year more flooding occurs salinating good farming land, where typhoons are increasing in number and strength and blowing away a family’s home, where ice is melting and making life for those adapted to live within the artic circle extremely difficult - none of those people have a choice, they are starving having to migrate where they will never be welcome ( I can’t see the U.K. welcoming a single one can you?)
They can’t choose. We can and choose to mitigate the damage, but we aren’t are we? Because we argue over the fact, we argue over the cause and we argue over the mitigation.

Science is not absolute.

Absolutely. I used to have a diesel car because there was less lead in the fuel than there was in the petrol. Then as things moved on the damage done by diesel fuels became proportionally more important and so we've moved away from diesel cars. That doesn't mean the scientific views were wrong to begin with.

Climate change caused by man or not, the important thing to me is that we stop using up resources as if they are infinite and stop polluting the planet. Even here scientists are divided.

We bought a diesel car because we were all told they were better for the environment. It was then discovered not only was the science wrong but some German manufacturers had fudged the emission rates and diesel cars were actually not environmentally friendly after all. Science is not absolute.

There's not much point in arguing about the cause of climate change.

Surely, the focus should be - we're in big trouble - so we need to make some drastic changes asap.

Summits, conferences, targets, aims, quotas and intentions make no difference at all!

No, its not down to opinions, its down to knowing which scientists are trustworthy and credible, and which are charlatans.

I'd recommend NASA, and not the bloke with a book to sell.