Men who cut down the sycamore in Sycamore Gap in court

Until it was chopped down I'd never heard of it. Just seems mean to destroy something that many others admired/get pleasure from

Oreo I think the Sycamore tree was one of the many things people visited when they holidayed in Northumberland.

There will always be a few obsessives who travel around ticking film locations off a list, and wouldgo there for no other purpose, but when I go to an area on holiday, even if I have one 'must see' I have many more 'let 's go and see' on my list as well.

DrWatson I accept your point and aplogise, I will be more careful in future.

My reaction was similar to Lollins.

For the OP (MOnica) did you deliberately or accidentally miss the word "allegedly" from your headline? And the pages of comments discussing what a terrible act of vandalism it was, well, indeed so, but have they actually been found guilty?

If so, I must have missed it, but as they're appearing at a higher court next month, I don't think I did.

Don't get me wrong, IF the police have actually apprehended the right people, then I'd have them doing Community Service for just about ever, and their entire range of State Benefits would be forfeited (in MY country, that would be society's response to any anti-social crimes).

But the Police aren't always right, by any means, are they?

The tree was valued using the Capital Asset Value of Amenity Trees (CAVAT) method. CAVAT provides a basis for managing trees in the UK as public assets rather than liabilities.

It is applicable to individual cases, where the value of a single tree needs to be expressed in monetary terms.

And you can read all about it and calculate it out your self here!!
www.southampton.gov.uk/moderngov/documents/s15821/Members%20Room%20Document%202.pdf

They knew it was much loved that's why they cut it down,nasty pieces of work

It was an iconic tree in an area of outstanding beauty and ancient history. Many people, myself included, will never see that tree now. How many years will it take for a replacement to grow?

It's unbelievable what some people will do.

I just can't fathom why they'd do it. No an easy task either. I suppose it wasn't protected or guarded because it wouldn't occur to authorities that anyone could be so mindless as to do such a stupid thing.

A sycamore tree has no great intrinsic value, just as paint marks on a canvas have no intrinsic value, but that sycamore in that position was of inestimable value to so many, and even to people seeing it for the first time, fallen to the ground on that spot, vandalised for who knows what reason, it’s destruction was heartbreaking.

It’s good that people should feel so moved by the loss of a tree that, just by growing in that particular spot, created beauty. I’m an idiot then, Oreo, but I’m not alone.

I’d like those two men to feel ashamed of what they’ve done, but I wonder if they’re capable.

I cannot comment on this case, as I know nothing about it, but the men's motives may be much the same as the Danes currently doing the same.

They are well off and belong to the "ME, ME, ME generation" and chop trees down because they happened to be impeding their view from their garden, and they seem neither to care nor to know that we may all cut our own trees down, but not other peoples'!

I just don’t understand why they did it.
It is very sad but how old was the tree?
I think sycamores grow pretty fast so a new, large specimen would soon be a decent size, if given a little temporary shelter.
It’s bleak and windy up there so it would probably grow to a similar shape. They might even be able to transplant one from a similar exposed site locally.

We do have to wait to check if they are guilty, before we condemn their behaviour. But if it is them, wearing masks indicates to me that they are perfectly aware that what they did was wrong. If you think what you do is ok then why would you need to wear a mask?

The tree was indeed owned by the NT, it was an iconic feature, they can put whatever value the choose on it. You can’t just damage someone else’s property without consequences.
If the 2 men are proven guilty they will go to jail and if they have any money fined heavily too.

katie The tree was protected. I understand that there was tree preservation order on it. But if we are to enjoy things we cannot put barbed wire and sensors on everything that has value, whether, monetary, culturally, environmentally.

What we need to do is throw the book at the people that do damage these things that are special to all, whether it is Protestors, trying to damage the Magna Carta in pursuit of some, perceived, Great Cause, or two vandals destroying something, possible in pursuit of some petty grudge.

A price has been put on both:

Daniel Graham, 38, and Adam Carruthers, 31 are charged with criminal damage to property of a value over £5,000, namely “without lawful excuse, damaged a sycamore tree to the value of £622,191 belonging to the National Trust”.

They face a second charge of criminal damage to property valued under £5,000, namely Hadrian’s Wall, with the damage assessed to the Unesco World Heritage Site as being £1,144.

karmalady

court drawings

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1899392/first-picture-sycamore-gap-tree-suspects

They look sorry now they're in court.
Good.

If found guilty, how could any judge determine a sentence for criminal damage of something which is priceless?

This is a UNESCO world heritage site. The penalties in a place like Pompei are extremely high if you even dare remove a pebble from its site. The wall was damaged when the tree was felled. I do hope the two responsible are given the maximum sentence otherwise other beautiful spots may find themselves vulnerable to similar vandalism by attention seekers.

wiki
"The offence of criminal damage is an either way offence which attracts a maximum sentence of 10 years' imprisonment. Where the damage value is less than £5,000, the case must be tried summarily and attracts a maximum sentence of 3 months' imprisonment and, or a fine of up to £2,500."

Katie590

Stupid Vandalism for sure, I’m surprised the tree had not got protected status, there are regulations around felling trees and landowners are only allowed a small quantity felled without a licence.
It was in the NP maybe there are more regulations that cover the felling, it would be interesting to see what regulation or law they are charged with breaking.

Its criminal damage atm.

The District Judge, wisely, decided that it had generated so much emotion and outrage that it should go to a Crown Court.

Doubtless, if these two are found guilty they will get an appropriate penalty. And due to the frenzy of interest already, just knowing their names will be enough for the army of Internet amateur detectives to run them to ground.

Stupid Vandalism for sure, I’m surprised the tree had not got protected status, there are regulations around felling trees and landowners are only allowed a small quantity felled without a licence.
It was in the NP maybe there are more regulations that cover the felling, it would be interesting to see what regulation or law they are charged with breaking.

court drawings

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1899392/first-picture-sycamore-gap-tree-suspects

I think that many people are misinterpreting the significance of cutting down this tree.

It is not significant because it was a tree It is significant because it was a visible landmark, that couldn't have been more perfectly placed, if it had been carefully planted.

It was an icon on the way the Angel of the North or Leaning Tower of Pisa is. An iconic item in position and view that people did travel to see when they were in the area.

However, when I started this thread the real thing that was outraging me was that it was possible for the two accused to turn up for court, not looking ashamed but seemingly swaggering and posturing and preening themselves for the press, their faces completely hidden by gimp masks.

There is no reason on earth which could justify felling such a beautiful iconic tree in such a very special location. As far as I can tell the tree and its location has no connection with any political or social cause. So I'm still totally bemused and need to know WHY they thought they had to chop it down?

Well I live in Cumbria and so people will know who they are and if found guilty everyone here will remember - so whatever their punishment the locals will know and remember and hopefully everyone will know their families are innocent