Men who cut down the sycamore in Sycamore Gap in court

Margiknot

It wasn’t only the chopping down of the tree but the resulting damage to Hadrian’s wall- an ancient and important monument which I presume the accused did not care about either.
It’s a while since I last walked along the Wall path, but if I remember correctly, sycamore gap is not near an access road- it can usually only be reached on foot- so plenty of time to sober up and rethink!
As to the sentence- prison seemed a bit inappropriate- but as they both must have known better ( worked in land management and ?local) I presume the judge knew more than we do- or had few options? Perhaps the two men would have been at risk if given community service? And that thought is distressing!

Yes, didn’t think of that (people attacking them)

It wasn’t only the chopping down of the tree but the resulting damage to Hadrian’s wall- an ancient and important monument which I presume the accused did not care about either.
It’s a while since I last walked along the Wall path, but if I remember correctly, sycamore gap is not near an access road- it can usually only be reached on foot- so plenty of time to sober up and rethink!
As to the sentence- prison seemed a bit inappropriate- but as they both must have known better ( worked in land management and ?local) I presume the judge knew more than we do- or had few options? Perhaps the two men would have been at risk if given community service? And that thought is distressing!

I think they have been made an example to others who may think that cutting down trees is fun. I remember seeing this tree for the first time at Hadrian’s Wall and knowing I’d seen it before. It wasn’t until I saw it in Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves that I realised where I’d seen it before. It was pretty iconic here in the NE, rather like The Angel of the North.

If Community Service was run properly then this would have been a suitable outcome for a longer sentence. However, this was pure vandalism and I’m happy with the sentence.

Granarchist

Oreo is right. Round here swathes of oak trees have been felled for HS2 - it is absolutely heart wrenching. If I had felled one I would be (rightly) prosecuted. Sycamores are fast growing and not only that, the seed pods are fatally poisonous to many animals - this hysteria over one sycamore is ridiculous. I agree they shouldn't have done it but HS2 is causing real decimation of the landcape and nobody is held to account for it.

I don’t agree Granachrist, it wasn’t their tree to fell. They are just spineless idiots!

That's still a year and eight months even if they behave and get parole. Quite a long time and the tax payer has to foot the bill.

They shouldn’t be in prison at all.

They will serve around 20 months maximum (40% of the sentence).

When I remember what some of the medical students got up to.

What about the famous Bullingdon Club at Oxford that Johnson and Cameron belonged to.

MayBee70

Oreo

And I further ponder, if this had been done by a couple of Uni students as a stunt, what sentence they would have received.

Do you honestly think that two uni students would have even considered doing this as a stunt?

Yes.

Quote Oreo Thu 17-Jul-25 16:03:50
And I further ponder, if this had been done by a couple of Uni students as a stunt, what sentence they would have received

Comparing university students with married men in mid and late 30’s

MayBee70

Oreo

And I further ponder, if this had been done by a couple of Uni students as a stunt, what sentence they would have received.

Do you honestly think that two uni students would have even considered doing this as a stunt?

Yes, there have always been quite intelligent people who do not think through their actions.

I can remember student Rag Weeks and I can remeember being horrified at the vandalistic actions some students thought amusing.

MayBee70

Oreo

And I further ponder, if this had been done by a couple of Uni students as a stunt, what sentence they would have received.

Do you honestly think that two uni students would have even considered doing this as a stunt?

Absolutely

Oreo

And I further ponder, if this had been done by a couple of Uni students as a stunt, what sentence they would have received.

Do you honestly think that two uni students would have even considered doing this as a stunt?

And I further ponder, if this had been done by a couple of Uni students as a stunt, what sentence they would have received.

What you all say👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Community service was the way to go. Prisons are bursting but this judge thought the felling of a tree, however ‘iconic’ was worth giving a four year sentence even tho nobody has ever been imprisoned before for this.
Judged and sentenced by the court of public opinion, what a precedent to set!

Ilovecheese

Prison was not appropriate. If ever there was a case for community service this was it. They should planting and tending parks and gardens, learning to appreciate nature and learning new skills. Just think of the good things they could have been doing in their locality as a much more suitable punishment.

But there is no guarantee that planting trees and tending parks would have any effect on their attitudes to nature.

It is just a probable that they would just see it as a chore to be done and got over with, they might even congratulate themselves on getting off with such a light sentence.

One of them worked in property maintenance and mechanics, and also repaired machinery at a turf farm, The other He was the owner of a groundwork company involved in landscaping, so they were alredy working with plants and nature.

They were just 2 stupid, not very bright men who got drunk and thought this would be a funny thing to do.

They are not the first to think like that and will certaainly not be the last. I can think of a very similar incident occurring in the village I used to live in, which involved deliberate damage to an old listed building, done in the middle of the night by a drunken farmer who was refused service at a pub, nothing clandestine about it, he woke up half the village doing it.

mumofmadboys

I think it is madness to imprison these two men. Community service planting a very large number of trees each would have been far more appropriate in my opinion. Prisons are overfull ++ and very expensive to run.

Yes

I think it is madness to imprison these two men. Community service planting a very large number of trees each would have been far more appropriate in my opinion. Prisons are overfull ++ and very expensive to run.

Prison was not appropriate. If ever there was a case for community service this was it. They should planting and tending parks and gardens, learning to appreciate nature and learning new skills. Just think of the good things they could have been doing in their locality as a much more suitable punishment.

The have now been identified, charged and sentenced. Is four years in prison too lenient or too harsh?

I agree in the grand scheme of things it's not a major crime. I do wonder though what went through the minds of the alleged perpetrators to commit such a senseless act of vandalism. Maybe I'm being kind and assuming they are capable of rational thought.

Why should it?

Of course there are layers of crimes, and this one comes low on my list tbh.
It’s vandalism against vegetation.
I accept that others have fond memories of this particular tree but most people in England have never heard of it.
If found guilty of criminal damage they will be punished.
It won’t keep me awake at night.

maddyone I am not sure I follow your thinking.

Obviously there is a hierarchy of crime, and violence to humans (and animals) will come first, but it doesn't mean that all other crime can be dismissed with a shrug of the shoulders.

Much research as been done to show that the physical environment deeply affects people, even when they are not aware of this and that the presence, for example of old and listed buildings in an area improves the mental health of those living in the area compared with those living in areas devoid of these buildings.

That sycamore, had iconic status. It had featured in a film and as a result people had sought it out. Many had chosen it as the site for marriage proposals. As a tree, it was just a tree, but it was embedded in many peoples psyche as the site of a special event in their life. This is why the tree had such a high montary value when assessing its amenity value and contribution to the landscape at that oint.

Of course dmage to humans rates hghly, but too often people make these sort of comparisons, as if nothine else counts. Perhaps someone seeing this tree in context, calmed by a day out in glorious countryside, then did not go home and assault his wife and family. It is quite possible

The tree shouldn’t have been cut down, but the perpetrators are in court and will receive their punishment. However I think there are many, many crimes that are much worse and upset me much more. Primarily crimes against children. They really upset me.