Really cold day today and wind and solar are able to provide only 8% of the total power we are using.

Perhaps solar power, battery stored power used when there is no sun. I'm unable to work out why battery storage is not encouraged.

What concerns me most about using nuclear power is that currently Russia is fighting Ukraine by destroying their power stations.
What would happen here in the future if Russia decided to bomb/destroy our nuclear power stations? Would it not be very dangerous to have that nuclear power released?

Posting posting.. Oh dear…….

Pisting in total ignorance of heat pumps but with a question.

If lots of/mist people have ground heat pumps in the future, won’t that make the ground colder? And affect biodiversity in the soil.

I’ve looked and looked online but nobody seems to have done any real studies on the possible effects of sucking great quantities of heat out of the ground.

This is a good discussion - no politics yet (much)😬

Whitewavemark2

Renewables give on average 40% of our total energy use. That is almost entirely wind and solar.

In contrast Norway gets nearly 99%of its energy from renewables. It has recently gone all electric. However their energy is largely from hydro, which I assume is more dependable than either solar or wind.

I wouldn’t be so quick at dismissing renewables, but I think nuclear must always be seen as a fall back unless technology can provide the means for it to be unnecessary.

But Norway’s population is tiny compared to the UK’s.

I agree Monica cheaper electricity would be viable for everyone. Many mostly rural properties have electricity, but no gas. They mostly rely on oil or LPG which is very expensive.
Heat pumps are not easily installed for everyone property and those I know who have them have various opinions on their efficiency.

I disagree with David49 on the difficulty replacing gas. All that is needed is to build nuclear power staions. The small packeged ones like those produced by Rolls Royce and othe companies, essentially based on the generators used in nuclear subs.

If the green taxes were removed from electricity and put on gas instead, the cost of both fuels would be similar and most people could then simply replace their gas boiler with an electric powered one, which for most people would cost well under £2,000, instead of the great expense and disruption of installing a heat pump.

The problem seems to be that governments want to go from our current state to net zero in one huge jump, when t could acctually be achieved much earlier if they would consider intermediate steps towards Nirvana.

Heat pumps may be perfection but on the way why not redistribute 'green' taxes, to make electricity cheaper, gas more expensive, so that cheaper electricity boilers or room heaters are a viable alternative on the journey to heat pumps for all, and install small scale nuclear fission until we have nuclear fusion.

J52

Lathyrus3

Ah, that’s interesting. I looked it up - hope you don’t mind, I was interested.

There seems to be a push for lots of small local schemes. Have I got it right? Good for Scotland!

Yes, it’s a good idea to research it as there’s so much information, I couldn’t summarise it.
A lot of the schemes are historically interesting and have some beautiful, listed industrial buildings and lovely reservoirs.
I know of a mini scheme that was built in private grounds to provide ‘the big house’ with electricity.

Many big houses built their own hydro power when there was no grid a few have revived those schemes helped by the FIT and other schemes. Hydro is much more expensive to install than solar or wind.

Now, the new Wind, Solar and Hydro schemes don’t get a subsidy they have to generate at an economic rate, there are investment allowances which for businesses which make them viable.

David49

Casdon

There are a lot of hydropower stations in Wales too, we get plenty of rain to serve them. Generating power locally is something that a lot of communities are interested in, so there’s a bidding process for schemes.

The hydro in Wales is small scale, the water supply dams in Elan valley etc generate some, most of the rest is micro scale.
There are valleys that could be flooded but the locals wouldn’t like that, the same could be said about the Lake District or Yorkshire Dales.

If we relied on generating our own energy it would be pretty chilly in winter, small wind turbines are a non starter in built up areas, too much turbulence, solar + a battery is the best option for electricity but thats only part of your energy. For heating most use gas replacing that is the hardest part,

Wales is small scale David49? Isolated communities generating their power through hydro is one of the ways forward here. Why do you feel the need to be critical of these initiatives?

Lathyrus3

Ah, that’s interesting. I looked it up - hope you don’t mind, I was interested.

There seems to be a push for lots of small local schemes. Have I got it right? Good for Scotland!

Yes, it’s a good idea to research it as there’s so much information, I couldn’t summarise it.
A lot of the schemes are historically interesting and have some beautiful, listed industrial buildings and lovely reservoirs.
I know of a mini scheme that was built in private grounds to provide ‘the big house’ with electricity.

Casdon

There are a lot of hydropower stations in Wales too, we get plenty of rain to serve them. Generating power locally is something that a lot of communities are interested in, so there’s a bidding process for schemes.

The hydro in Wales is small scale, the water supply dams in Elan valley etc generate some, most of the rest is micro scale.
There are valleys that could be flooded but the locals wouldn’t like that, the same could be said about the Lake District or Yorkshire Dales.

If we relied on generating our own energy it would be pretty chilly in winter, small wind turbines are a non starter in built up areas, too much turbulence, solar + a battery is the best option for electricity but thats only part of your energy. For heating most use gas replacing that is the hardest part,

I presume it’s as Allira says.
I could possibly generate enough power to run my house if I had little wind turbine and harvested all the rain hitting my roof here in the hills, but a solar panel system would be a waste of time for 9 months a year.

There was a feature on the news the other day about a housebuilder, I think in Gloucestershire, who is putting solar panels on the roofs of all the houses they build.

Perhaps this should become more widespread, and on public buildings too.

Casdon

Lathyrus3

fancythat

Sounds like we should have gone hydro in that case.

Why didnt we?

There’s nowhere really in the UK that has the water and the fall to generate that kind of power (apart from a couple of small stations).

Also 90% of the power Norway needs is much, much less than we need. Only 5.5 million people to supply!

That’s not entirely true. It’s estimated that the Severn Barrage could generate 5% of the total electricity demand for the UK, and there are a number of other potential schemes. Currently it’s only 1.3% of the total used, but there’s significant potential for growth.

The Severn Barrage could be catastrophic for wildlife and the eco system too.

But no, I don't know the answer.

fancythat

Sounds like we should have gone hydro in that case.

Why didnt we?

Not enough waterfalls perhaps?

There are contra-indictions to hydro power too, such as the impact it has on wildlife and the ecology.

There are a lot of hydropower stations in Wales too, we get plenty of rain to serve them. Generating power locally is something that a lot of communities are interested in, so there’s a bidding process for schemes.

Ah, that’s interesting. I looked it up - hope you don’t mind, I was interested.

There seems to be a push for lots of small local schemes. Have I got it right? Good for Scotland!

Casdon

Lathyrus3

fancythat

Sounds like we should have gone hydro in that case.

Why didnt we?

There’s nowhere really in the UK that has the water and the fall to generate that kind of power (apart from a couple of small stations).

Also 90% of the power Norway needs is much, much less than we need. Only 5.5 million people to supply!

That’s not entirely true. It’s estimated that the Severn Barrage could generate 5% of the total electricity demand for the UK, and there are a number of other potential schemes. Currently it’s only 1.3% of the total used, but there’s significant potential for growth.

There are several Hydro Power Schemes in Scotland and have been since the early 20th century. Currently around 12% of Scotlands electricity is made.

There were plans, possible still active to build a thread of tidal lagoons down the South Wales coast www.swansea.gov.uk/NewImages?lang=en that, with the Severn barrage could have provided 20% or more of the power we needed.

I appreciate the need to protect wild life, but if we do not reduce the emissions the world is producing the planet will become unlivable in and it will be curtains for all wildlife and humans, so I think the advantages of the Severn barrage are far stronger than the relative minor disruption to some seabirds.

The problem with sea power, and work conrinues on it, is that firstly sea conditions are immensely variable from little swell and no waves to storm force conditions with a swell of many meters and waves upto 5 metres or more, and it is very difficult to design equipment that can cope with this immense variability of conditions. Secondly seawater is exceedingly corrosive and designing equipment with moving parts that does not need to be replaced every few months also presents problems.

whitewave yes, we do produce 40% of our power, over a year from renewables, but the problem is that it is weather dependent and on days like today, a cold day when electricity demand is high, it is providing less than 10 per cent of demand. If we are to stand down all our gas power stations we need to have emission free power 24/365 that can always meet peak demand. The only way we can do this is for the foreseeable future is with nuclear power.

OldFrill

Gingster

Why have we never used the sea? wave power? It’s always there.

It's far more expensive than the alternatives, but l think the Fins may be coming to help us. I also like whales so much l think we should leave their habitat alone. Of course there's no "proof' wave power causes whales to strand but also there's no "proof" it doesn't.

I’m all for more environmentally ways of providing energy but I share your concern about the creatures living in our seas. I worry about how our local dolphins might be affected. Then again, global warming is going to affect them, too. What a mess we’re making of our planet.

The Severn is the only one I’m aware of that has the power needed and there are massive environmental implications. There was a was a study of The Wash but as far as I’m aware the findings were negative.

I was really reply to fancythats comment about hydro. I don’t know anywhere in England that has the fall of water needed to build a hydro station.

GrannyGravy13

Norway has over 900 Hydro-electric plants providing just over 90% of the countries power.

They have a totally different landscape to the UK, many of these plants are in the Fjords.

The UK has only got the sea for hydro power really, and it’s a busy with a. multitude of shipping lanes.

This is true.

Norway is an incredible country, efficient, clean and very wealthy!

Our son lives there and enjoys an enviable lifestyle.

The majority of their wealth however comes from oil and gas.

Lathyrus3

fancythat

Sounds like we should have gone hydro in that case.

Why didnt we?

There’s nowhere really in the UK that has the water and the fall to generate that kind of power (apart from a couple of small stations).

Also 90% of the power Norway needs is much, much less than we need. Only 5.5 million people to supply!

That’s not entirely true. It’s estimated that the Severn Barrage could generate 5% of the total electricity demand for the UK, and there are a number of other potential schemes. Currently it’s only 1.3% of the total used, but there’s significant potential for growth.

Gingster

Why have we never used the sea? wave power? It’s always there.

You may be thinking of tidal power not wave power. Waves vary just like wind does. In fact closely linked with wind.

You need the tide to ebb and flow with force in a restricted area in order to generate large quantities of power. As in the fall you need in hydro.

We just haven’t got the mountains or the coastline for anything significant.

Only 5.5 million people to supply!

Exactly, Lathryrus3!