Why isthe introduction of species deemed necessary

Certainly not pine martens. There were reports of "large cats" (lynx?) living on the Brecon beacons though, don't know if they are still sighted there. So Scottish wildcats may be able to live in the wooded valleys on Dartmoor similarly.

Allira

There are woodland areas near the rivers.

I think there was woodland in Tarka the Otter ( which is on a par with Bambi’s mother…)

There are woodland areas near the rivers.

Well, there are farms but it is moorland with heather (or was when we lived on the edge of it!)

It's heather moorland.

“Shy, curious and playful. The pine marten is a stealthy, acrobatic hunter that relies on the cover of woods and trees for its foraging missions. It was once a fundamental part of our woodlands, but it is now critically endangered in England and Wales and completely extinct on the south west peninsula. As a result, we have lost a beautiful, fascinating wild creature that plays a key role in our woodland natural processes. Until now...

Pine Martens Bounce Back: the Two Moors Pine Marten project is reintroducing pine marten populations in Dartmoor and Exmoor to restore this missing link in our woodland environment and to help people live alongside these amazing animals once more. The first translocations have taken place and pine martens are now living wild on Dartmoor for the first time in 150 years”.
That makes more sense doesn’t it. Woodland areas of Dartmoor and Exmoor. So no danger to birds like Curlews.

I’m sure the article I read mentioned Dartmoor. However, when I think of Dartmoor I don’t think of a vast treeless area covered in mainly Heather ( which I wouldn’t think would be a suitable habitat fir either wild cats I’d pine martens.

Pine martens in Dartmoor, the Lake District, and there are planned releases in Exmoor and Cumbria.

Wild cats in the Cairngorms National Park.

Dipsy

Is anyone else concerned about the introduction of predators such as Scottish Wild Cat a Pine Marten to English moorland. Ground nesting birds and small mammals to name just two already have many predators and I think it will upset the balance of nature I believe some farmers are having problems with Beavers

Where have they been introduced to English moorland Dipsy I can’t find any references?

valdavi

Luckygirl3

It is a way of allowing our native red squirrel population to recover instead of the greys (cute though they are) taking over completely.

I am puzzled as to why the reds are favoured by humans and what gives us the right to interfere in ways that will destroy many greys? How do we justify this value judgement?

Thank you for the link to the documentary - I will look at that.

For me, I think it's partly that reds are incredibly retiring & difficult to spot, whereas greys are very "in your face". Also a really unforgiveable value judgement, but they're adorable.

It is simply that one is native and one is an introduced species from N America.
As so often with introduced species, both flora and fauna, they can proliferate and take over.

Luckygirl3

*It is a way of allowing our native red squirrel population to recover instead of the greys (cute though they are) taking over completely.*

I am puzzled as to why the reds are favoured by humans and what gives us the right to interfere in ways that will destroy many greys? How do we justify this value judgement?

Thank you for the link to the documentary - I will look at that.

For me, I think it's partly that reds are incredibly retiring & difficult to spot, whereas greys are very "in your face". Also a really unforgiveable value judgement, but they're adorable.

Dipsy

Is anyone else concerned about the introduction of predators such as Scottish Wild Cat a Pine Marten to English moorland. Ground nesting birds and small mammals to name just two already have many predators and I think it will upset the balance of nature I believe some farmers are having problems with Beavers

I am sure it is an unintentional typo or a "helpful" auto-correction, but the first time I saw this I read "predators such as Scottish Wild Cat a Pine Marten" as meaning that a Scottish wildcat is a type of pine marten, which it isn't of course, it is a type of cat!

It is not an ordinary house moggy which has taken to the hills and gone wild, either, it is a separate kind of undomesticated (and pretty untameable) wildcat with distinct features. Link - The differences between domestic tabbies and wildcats. Unfortunately it is close enough genetically to the house moggies to be able to breed with them, so there is a danger of interbreeding diluting the wildcat genes and the true wildcats vanishing.

There was a report in the i this morning about the reintroduction of the wolf into an area of the USA and the beneficial effect it had on the vegetation in that area.

In the past the wolf had been the top predator, but they were gradually exterminated and as a result the area was over populated by elk, who browsed on the trees stopping many growing and restricting the growth of others, there was a general degredation of the range of plants and habitats in the area.

Bringing back the wolf gradually has reduced the elk poulation, trees are growing more profusely and taller and the previous more complex habitat is returning.

My son-in-law farms and he has welcomed beavers onto his land. No one knows where the beavers came from, it wasn’t a planned repopulation, but they’ve done wonders for the local waterways, preventing flooding with their dams.

The seal that came upriver wasn’t so welcome by the fishermen! It had strayed off course as seals don’t belong 30 miles inland.

They are invasive destructive animals and can be the cause of house fires. Their constant need to gnaw, especially on electrical wiring, can lead to damaged insulation and exposed wires, creating a serious fire hazard

Where we lived previously a neighbour, an elderly widow, had them in her roof.

Luckygirl3

*It is a way of allowing our native red squirrel population to recover instead of the greys (cute though they are) taking over completely.*

I am puzzled as to why the reds are favoured by humans and what gives us the right to interfere in ways that will destroy many greys? How do we justify this value judgement?

Thank you for the link to the documentary - I will look at that.

Grey squirrels are the animal equivalent of Japanese Knotweed

Grey squirrels are an invasive species, brought into this country in the late 19th century as ornamental additions to estates and parks. Originally they were seen as decorative features but they soon escaped from the confines of the parks that introduced them and spread throughout the UK.

They outbred and out ate the native red squirrel, driving them out of most of the UK, just about surviving in a few area. They are invasive destructive animals and can be the cause of house fires. Their constant need to gnaw, especially on electrical wiring, can lead to damaged insulation and exposed wires, creating a serious fire hazard.

We had a near miss ourselves with the fire risk. Squirrels got into our last house via a neighbours roof. They chewed all the plastic coating off over a foot of the electric cable that went from the light switch to the light fitting in one of the bedrooms.

Thankfully their next meal was one of the intruder alarm wires so the burglar alarm went off at 2.00am one day. When the service man arrived and went into the loft, he reported what he saw. Over one bedroom the squirrels had gathered all the insulation into aa great heap in the middle to make a dray and they had moved on to over a second bedroom where they were starting to do the same thing and where they had chewed the wire.

The room under the section of roof they invaded was our spare bedroom, so the lights were not used much, and, as the room was not much used so we hadn't heard them in the roof above the room.

It cost over £1,000 to sort out the damage and ensure the party wall was entirely squirrel proof.

Thank you for your informative posts Maybee.

I do worry about the wild boar in the New Forest as I think they’re quite dangerous

We have wild boar around here too - they can be intimidating but they were more interested in our sandwiches than in little DGC.

Luckygirl3

*It is a way of allowing our native red squirrel population to recover instead of the greys (cute though they are) taking over completely.*

I am puzzled as to why the reds are favoured by humans and what gives us the right to interfere in ways that will destroy many greys? How do we justify this value judgement?

Thank you for the link to the documentary - I will look at that.

Reds aren't favoured, it is just that greys, cute though they may look, are non-native and reds are.
Grey squirrels brought a pox with them to which they are immune but red squirrels are not.

It is when humankind meddles, introducing non-native species or destroying certain species that the balance is disrupted.

vegansrock

I wouldn't worry about grouse which are bred specifically to be shot for fun.

Not for fun.

For food.

I dont think the reintroduction of Red Kites is now going too well, either.

Having said that, areas that raise birds to be shot ( and I’m not saying I agree with that) are safe havens for other wildlife. There’s some land owned by the Duke of Northumberland that doesn’t allow people to walk their dogs; I think it’s to protect the pheasants so he can shoot them. And I saw a programme once that showed some land where grouse were reared and a certain species of butterfly flourished there. I do worry about the wild boar in the New Forest as I think they’re quite dangerous ( going off at a tangent here but I listened to a History Extra podcast last night about reasons for people dying in the past and because people tended to share their homes with their livestock babies were often killed and eaten by pigs…).

vegansrock

I wouldn't worry about grouse which are bred specifically to be shot for fun.

Here the can of worms opens, and not beneficial worms either. Land use by humans sorely needs to be reorganised so that grouse moors , landed estates, and other leisure pursuits of a few rich people are evenly distributed among all income groups.

MayBee70

For decades it was thought that animal populations were regulated by their food supply. This seemed reasonable enough but in fact in mature ecosystems the key controller is a top predator. Human beings are top, top predators, albeit hardly a part of nature any more, and they have very often removed the key predator from natural ecosystems with consequences we are only just discovering. Without top predators, herbivores run riot, consuming the vegetation. So in Yellowstone national park, Wyoming, healthy tree growth requires wolves to keep down the elk population (they eat tree seedlings). Off the Pacific coast of North America, without sea otters, the giant kelp beds are destroyed by sea urchins. In nature, though not in life, the adage “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” holds true. It isn’t only trees or kelp that benefit: when a top predator is established the number of species that can flourish is dramatically larger than when it is removed. Human beings generally destroy large mammals wherever they find them. We can now see that this has seriously impoverished our world. For Carroll, these revelations are grounded in his love affair with the Serengeti national park, Tanzania, where the greatest abundance of large mammals still flourishes.

I second that. Great post MayBee.

Dipsy

Is anyone else concerned about the introduction of predators such as Scottish Wild Cat a Pine Marten to English moorland. Ground nesting birds and small mammals to name just two already have many predators and I think it will upset the balance of nature I believe some farmers are having problems with Beavers

I suppose I ought to be concerned. I tend to place my faith in scientific experts. At least I can be more like Dipsy, and ask questions.

Red Squirrels don’t damage trees as much as Grey Squirrels do.

Luckygirl3

*It is a way of allowing our native red squirrel population to recover instead of the greys (cute though they are) taking over completely.*

I am puzzled as to why the reds are favoured by humans and what gives us the right to interfere in ways that will destroy many greys? How do we justify this value judgement?

Thank you for the link to the documentary - I will look at that.

Greys were never native to the U.K.
Reds are. Their numbers have plummeted since the introductions of greys - and they’re prettier.