Who is feeding them?

My GD was of average weight at birth. She developed a bowel condition and she was put on a full fat diet and not allowed all the foods we consider healthy. She is now large for her age and I hope she will not be judged as she gets older, it really is a medical condition.

Orca, re your original question, that is just what I was wondering?

nanachuckles you have a perfect attitude to trying to loose weight.

You have to live in Europe in the 21st century to question our relationship with food.

Food is there for when you are hungry, we don't have a relationship with it. We like it or don't like it and if we eat too much then we are being greedy.

Looking at post war pictures there are very few examples of genetically fat people. Whole steeets were full of shoppers, all were slim and we weren't hungry we just ate what was there, it was just not a lot.

I feel sorry for fat people and can imagine how hard it is to move about and those TV programmes are really disgusting.
I also have thought that when you are so huge that you can't get out of bed then surely you must lose some weight.

Having food "issues" is a psychological problem. I dieted for years since I was 10 and weighed 10 stone. My mum took me to a slimming club and I lost some weight that went right back on as soon as I stopped the class. Today in school we educate children to make healthy choices. My class are growing fresh veggies in class as part of their science topic. We have healthy workshops etc and try to educate children in healthy eating.
Having reached 30 stone in my life I have tried so many slimming clubs and failed in them all after losing a few stones. As a last resort I joined a health club and lost 2 stone. Due to a car crash I had to leave it till my hip got better. SO, I decided that if I wanted to see my grandson grow up I had to change my outlook on food. After doing some research on the net I through out ALL my diet foods and low calorie diet drinks etc etc etc. (I try not to eat anything with ASPARTINE in it as I read it attacks the cartillage) I went back to dieting the way my gran used to do it. I reduced the amounts I eat, not what I eat. I cook everything from scratch and I have increased my intake of veg and fruit. Since Christmas 2012, I have eaten healthy and I have lost 4 and a half stone. I realised that it had to be a change of life style and not just going to a club and starving myself of the foods I liked. I still have a packet of crisps if I want one, I had a cream scone on Sunday but now I try to balance what I eat and I am beginning to feel a lot better and can now walk a little further with my wee dog. I am hoping by the summer to have lost another 2 stone but if its only 1 I will still be happy. I realise it will take time. I agree that these obese people need psychological hep and in Scotland help is available but you need to ask for it.

I think our relationship with food is a very complicated one, particularly in the developed world where food is more varied and plentiful. Even supposedly "normal" people who don't have obvious eating disorders can get caught up in a cycle of silly diets, expensive "low calorie" foods, etc. etc. There are so many reasons why people become overweight or get into unhealthy patterns of eating:

Parents who "reward" children with food - setting up a pattern for life
The marketing of unhealthy/addictive foods and drinks
Feelings of lack of control in a parent/child relationship
The vast choice of food available
Depression, leading to over or under eating
Lack of exercise ... etc. etc.

Whatever the reasons, I don't like these sorts of voyeuristic programmes that seem to intrude on the misfortunes of others.

I confess I've never felt sympathetic to grossly overweight people. I know I should do but I don't.

I used to work as a therapist at a centre for anorectics. I was surprised to learn that it is not just a question of them refusing food, they actually felt nauseous and were inclined to vomit when they tried to eat.

And there must be loads more reasons why people get grossly overweight.

Middle class kids were fed meusli and such and lacked nutrition that way. Poor kids may get fed sausage rolls and doughnuts. ditto.

I think much of this obese/non obese is genetic. If you are unfortunate enough to be born with a liking for sweet/fatty foods, then it is going to be much harder for you to keep to a reasonable weight. And then there's differing metabolisms.

At a time when I needed to feel "in control", I spent four months starving myself. I skipped breakfast. Sat in the library [reading recipe books] while my work colleagues ate lunch. Rationed myself to a boiled egg and Ryvetta for my 'main meal' in the evenings. I was living alone and no-one was aware of my illness. When my then husband returned from his tour of duty, he was horrified that I was so skinny. I had never thought of myself as being slim, so I regarded skinny as a huge compliment. Anorexia is a very complex illness. I feel terribly sad for those whose lives are blighted by it.

This article from February 2013 reports a study that showed that middle class children were more likely to be obese than poorer children. The finding contradicts what had been believed, i.e. that poorer children were more likely to be obese.

gangy5 Can you make that statement and not wish to elaborate?

I heard somewhere this week that genes have been discounted as a cause of obesity.
That probably leaves only that it could be a psychological problem.

My DH is currently part of an initiative being run by the NHS. He wouldn't listen to any of the family who told him that he should lose weight (19st)
Via the doctor he's been doing 12 weeks at a slimming club and it's working!!
He's lost 1 and a half stone in 10 weeks. When his 12 weeks are up he is now motivated to continue.

Dare I mention that I also think that class comes into it but don't wish to elaborate.

So when someone says an anorexic person is being force fed, that's the sort of thing they mean. It's not actual force feeding, though the foods offered do have hidden extra calories.

There was acase in the news recently of a severely ill anorexic woman who had been ill for a very long time. She was arguing that she couldn,t be cured and should be allowed to die. Her parents, despondently, agreed.

My sister wasn't quite that ill.

So the idea of there being specialist treatment centres for severe obesity is probably a good one. I suspect the problem is knowing what to do that will effect an actual cure.

Orca, I don't think we can talk about the will of an anorexic. The illness is that the will is focussed on one thing. Severely ill anorexics do not think rationally and they behave in extremely clever manipulative ways. Treatment against the will in my sister's case consisted of taking her clothes away to prevent her from running away from the hospital where she was being treated. This was when she weighed five and a half stone. Would it have been better to let her kill herself? She was allowed to have them back when she reached a certain weight. The next positive reinforcement was telling her she could go to my wedding if she reached seven stone in time. It worked. Sensible behaviour was rewarded. Mentally ill behaviour was prevented as much as possible. That's good treatment, not force.

I have to agree with Orca in the way that, whenever I see any such programme I wonder how anyone can afford to eat so much. When I try to work out how I can afford to retire my first thought is how much I can cut my food bill down by [the bill that I have the most control over]. This is without giving any thought to why these people have become so overweight [which maybe such programmes should explain]. But I do understand weight issues, having been on a diet for most of my adult life and never being totally in control of my eating [eg over Easter ]. Food is a very complex issue in our lives when we live in a part of the world where we can virtually eat as much as we want and some of us [me included] don't have a 'stop' button. Even so, I would never have become morbidly obese unless I had a health issue that reduced my mobility [and people do need help with that; something the NHS should recognise more]. Sorry to rant on [just woke up and still half asleep..]

orca there are some units that help with obesityone at least here in the North East, but I dont think its on the same scale yet. I am sure someone will come back with the figures and blow that statement right out of the water

But Bags there is specialised help and units out there to treat anorexia, some even against their will. No such programme exists for the severely obese and they continue to eat themselves to an early grave, suffering greatly on their path to perdition.

wisewoman that was exactly my point.

A programme about anorexic people would most certainly be a horror show. It is a horrific illness and people close to anorexics suffer too because of its psychological complexity.

Jane well spotted! My iPad is away for repair so using my friends Kindle Fire and its much smaller. I thought I'd posted on the TV forum but my big fingers must have misjudged!
By serious thinking, I mean coming up with something that would really help people lose weight. Some if these half arsed thought out policies I've seen on TV or read about are simply not going to work. The problem is getting bigger (! Sorry !) and won't just go away. I realise it's complex so that's why some really serious thinking is needed. Please don't jump to the conclusion that I want to take all fat kids into care or other draconian measures for obese adults.

Like Orca, I wondered who was providing food to some of these poor souls. Obviously they have issues of which food is a small part BUT if someone you love is a drug addict and is killing themselves, would we just provide drugs for them because we love them? I don't have any answers but having had issues with food in the past myself I think psychological help is needed but the person must want it. In the meantime helping them to kill themselves with food can't be right.

I think obesity, anorexia and bulimia are just opposite ends of the spectrum, do you feel that to watch a programme on anorexia is also like watching a horror show.

These people have an illness whether its over eating or undereating, in most of these cases there are underlining problems, and because we cant see the reason for it does that mean that we should look on these individuals as freaks. I suppose it harks back to the dark days when depression was thought not to be a real illness, thank goodness we have moved on but how long do we have to wait for eating disorders to be accepted as an illness.

orca I haven't watched this programme, but I am not sure what you mean by 'serious thinking'.
A child was taken into care 3 years ago in North Tyneside because he was obese as this was deemed to be child abuse.
However as glass implies obesity is a complex condition, some would go so far as to say it is a choice, and no one can be forced to accept help, even if appropriate help is available.
By the way why did you put your thread into the tech section?
I thought you were going to be going on about trolls