I love to cruise do you?

Your assumption that no one but you is aware . . . and your personal attacks . . . whilst still using fossil fuels and possibly scarce resources like lithium to power a device to make your attacks, evidently areas not covered in your PhD, are amusingly hypocritical Northernlass.

Aveline your argument that we pollute whether at home or on a ship is spurious. And ignorant of the facts.

And I agree with Syracute that your attitude is scary.

Mollygo you didn't have to deviate from the OP. It seems you've engineered an arena to make personal attacks on someone who had the best intentions, and who is aware of the consequences of our choices.

I studied Natural Sciences, specalised in Earth Sciences, and gained a PhD in this field.

Aveline

You just don't get it. All the cutting and pasting you put up here won't change our minds. Many of us enjoy cruising. We all pollute whether at home or on a ship.

This sort of attitude is scary . The corals around Florida are all dying because of the ocean overheating . Many massive cruise ships start in Florida . It’s not the only reason but it is a contributing factor . Saying I will cruise no matter is very sad . No hope for the grandchildren with an attitude like this .

Northernlass

Mollygo
I find it disarming, and I'm saddened, that this thread seems to have turned into point scoring. It wasn't my intention to provoke you into such response.
🤣🤣🤣
Sorry for the disbelieving laugh.
This thread is about who likes cruising, or who doesn’t like cruising, not who thinks they’re the most perfect at considering the environment (whilst still probably using fossil fuels to power the electricity their device needs in order to let them lecture).

Well said, Aveline. And all that cutting and pasting isn't really what this thread was about.

You just don't get it. All the cutting and pasting you put up here won't change our minds. Many of us enjoy cruising. We all pollute whether at home or on a ship.

You say Mollygo:

"^I always find it very virtue signalling when people imagine that their actions or choice of actions are superior to those of others and imagine that no one but them is making any effort^"

NB Mollygo I have dealt in facts, not conjecture, based on scientific research. I have not stated in this thread what I do to reduce my carbon footprint.

Mollygo
I find it disarming, and I'm saddened, that this thread seems to have turned into point scoring. It wasn't my intention to provoke you into such response.

May I ask what you think my intentions have been throughout this thread?

Perhaps you've heard of Dave MacKay? He was a fantastic bloke whom I had the privilege of working with:

Sir David John Cameron MacKay FRS FInstP FICE was a British physicist, mathematician, and academic. He was the Regius Professor of Engineering in the Department of Engineering at the University of Cambridge and from 2009 to 2014 was Chief Scientific Advisor to the UK Department of Energy and Climate Change. Wikipedia
Born: 22 April 1967, Stoke-on-Trent
Died: 14 April 2016, Cambridge
Education: California Institute of Technology, University of Cambridge, Trinity College, Newcastle-under-Lyme School

This is a link you and others may find interesting:

www.withouthotair.com/c19/page_114.shtml

and here's an extract which sums up what I'm trying to say:

"*Every BIG helps*

We’ve established that the UK’s present lifestyle can’t be sustained on the
UK’s own renewables (except with the industrialization of country-sized
areas of land and sea). So, what are our options, if we wish to get off fossil
fuels and live sustainably? We can balance the energy budget either by
reducing demand, or by increasing supply, or, of course, by doing both.

Have no illusions. To achieve our goal of getting off fossil fuels, these
reductions in demand and increases in supply must be big. *Don’t be distracted
by the myth that “every little helps.” If everyone does a little, we’ll
achieve only a little. We must do a lot. What’s required are big changes in
demand and in supply.*

“But surely, if 60 million people all do a little, it’ll add up to a lot?”
No. This “if-everyone” multiplying machine is just a way of making something
small sound big. The “if-everyone” multiplying machine churns out
inspirational statements of the form “if everyone did X, then it would provide
enough energy/water/gas to do Y,” where Y sounds impressive. Is
it surprising that Y sounds big? Of course not. We got Y by multiplying
X by the number of people involved – 60 million or so! Here’s an example
from the Conservative Party’s otherwise straight-talking Blueprint for a
Green Economy:

“The mobile phone charger averages around ... 1W consumption, but if every one of the country’s 25 million mobile phones chargers were left plugged in and switched on they would consume enough electricity (219GWh) to power 66 000 homes for one year.”

66 000? Wow, what a lot of homes! Switch off the chargers! 66 000 sounds a
lot, but the sensible thing to compare it with is the total number of homes
that we’re imagining would participate in this feat of conservation, namely
25 million homes. 66 000 is just one quarter of one percent of 25 million. So
while the statement quoted above is true, I think a calmer way to put it is:

If you leave your mobile phone charger plugged in, it uses one quarter of one percent of your home’s electricity.

And if everyone does it?

If everyone leaves their mobile phone charger plugged in, those chargers will use one quarter of one percent of their homes’ electricity.

The “if-everyone” multiplying machine is a bad thing because it deflects
people’s attention towards 25million minnows instead of 25million sharks.
The mantra “Little changes can make a big difference” is bunkum, when applied
to climate change and power."

I believe he wrote Without Hot Air c. 2010. And, it appears, we're still debating the validity of his research.

Northernlass
However, as I’ve said before, many of us put our desires, or needs, above the needs of our world. Which is the more important? We all have the capacity to make choices and, once informed, to look for alternative ways of being/living/thinking

No one is perfect, not even those who shower only once a week for less than four minutes, who grow all their own food and never set foot out of doors so they don’t use pollution-creating transport, or causing danger on the roads by cycling or wearing out shoes by walking.

Not even those using electricity to power their devices to post on GN about other’s perceived defects.

I’ve read threads on GN where GN’s share the efforts they are making to minimise their impact on the planet. I find it both useful and heartening that we are all doing something.

I always find it very virtue signalling when people imagine that their actions or choice of actions are superior to those of others and imagine that no one but them is making any effort,

but if doing that keeps you busy, go for it, Northernlass

Mollygo & Blondiescot you may be correct, of course. Your language is somewhat emotional eg well-earned, much needed - it’s hard to put the other side. No doubt lots of people feel these things.
However, as I’ve said before, many of us put our desires, or needs, above the needs of our world. Which is the more important? We all have the capacity to make choices and, once informed, to look for alternative ways of being/living/thinking

I’ve only ever been on one, a quickie just to Ghent and Amsterdam, can’t say I fancy anything longer but 2 siblings and their spouses are fans - smaller ships only, though - not those enormous block-of-flats things.

However an ex colleague went on several mega-ship cruises sailing out of Miami, and loved them. She said most of the passengers were very fat Americans who spent much of the day going from one on-board eatery to another - she herself was a good size 18 and said she felt positively skinny beside many of them!

I’m not sure what your last message means Aveline?

Blondiescot

Perhaps those who enjoy cruises are making their own effort to help the environment in other ways? Wishing to enjoy a perhaps well-earned and much-needed holiday, whether that is a cruise or a package holiday or a staycation, doesn't necessarily mean that person doesn't care about climate change or the environment. They may well be doing their own bit in other ways. We can't all be paragons of virtue.

Well said. 👏👏

Perhaps those who enjoy cruises are making their own effort to help the environment in other ways? Wishing to enjoy a perhaps well-earned and much-needed holiday, whether that is a cruise or a package holiday or a staycation, doesn't necessarily mean that person doesn't care about climate change or the environment. They may well be doing their own bit in other ways. We can't all be paragons of virtue.

Northernlass discuss this with cruisers from China and India.

M0nica you posted the following, under the heading: What kind of father sacrifices his children in order, he thinks, to win an election

"I have read today that Rishi Sunak has said he is going to review Low Traffic Neighbourhoods and ban them and do other things to make using a car easier and that he has approvea major extension of oil exploration in the North Sea. All this as Europe burns and heatwaves are reported everywhere.

If global warming gets worse, it is his children along with everyone elses who will suffer, children like his and my grandchildren, just starting into life, on their way towards adult life. Sunak, himself is only 43.

Forget which political party he supports, I just cannot get my head around the idea of a father prepared to sacrifice his children for a petty political gain."

Seems like there's a bit of a mis-match between your post above and the number of your cruises and their ensuing environmental impact.

Aveline I think you, and many other posters on this thread, would find it illuminating and productive to research the environmental impact of cruises. Then you'd be able to make an informed choice about how you holiday; after all, one cannot unlearn what one has learned.

I have no moral high ground - nor have I made a comparison between cruising and holidaying in resorts - I am extremely concerned about our CLIMATE EMERGENCY. And the legacy we are leaving our grandchildren.

We are in this emergency NOW. It isn't something that's going to happen sometime in the future. How we choose to live NOW has a knock-on effect for generations. These are facts - not my opinion.

It seems to me that there's a lot of people who put their personal desires - I have one friend who says she'll not rest until she's visited every continent - above all else, even when there's so much information about how we are affecting our world.

Still, I guess it'll be worth spoiling our world just so we can hark back to the good old days of cocktails on our cruises - perhaps when we're all unable to breathe clean air?

Monica wasn’t remotely rude.

pascal30

I don't fly, by choice, so I don't stay in resorts.. it will be our children and grandchildren who bear the legacy of this generation's selfishness.. or maybe you're a climate denyer?

We don't fly unless forced, we generally drive, however cars use petrol, so? We typically don't stay in resorts, too claustrophobic for us, but we do stay in single lets/B&B and actually that may be just as eco unfriendly as a resort. Staying home is same, we still use earth's resources.

All people can do is their best, imo.

Monica I didn't say never to travel if you look at my comments.
and I didn't duck out of the question I said we have responsibility for our own actions which of course can include being part of campaigns and trying to live mindfully and ethically. Cut the rude remarks it isn't worthy of you

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

And even you can know she's not wrong pascal30!

maddyone

pascal perhaps you’d like to take your concerns to China, the USA, or Russia. I’m sure they’d want to listen and amend their ways.

even you should know that we can only be responsible for our own behaviour

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I don't fly, by choice, so I don't stay in resorts.. it will be our children and grandchildren who bear the legacy of this generation's selfishness.. or maybe you're a climate denyer?