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the state

(36 Posts)
travelsafar Mon 21-Aug-17 07:40:06

Did anyone else watch this last night on Ch 4. I found really interesting and am looking forward to the next episodes which are on the next few evenings.

trisher Sun 27-Aug-17 10:58:41

Possibly she had read some biased and condemnatory opinions like yours petra and had come to believe that much of what she had been told about ISIS was in fact biased propaganda. It is language and comments like yours that enforce opinions that western society is corrupt and anti-Islamic. Understanding and trying to appreciate the problems religious Islamic women face is the way to help. Appreciating their problems and offering help isn't the same as condoning the actions of extremists.

petra Sat 26-Aug-17 22:12:56

So we are supposed to believe that the doctor had never seen a beheading , gay men thrown off buildings, male children being used as 'soldiers, yazidi women and children being auctioned at sex markets.
If she hadn't she must be one of the few in this country who
haven't. No, she knew exactly what she was going into, and didn't care because, after all, she was a doctor, wasn't she, and chose to believe their crap ideology.
It only went tits when she realised she was only there for one purpose, to service the Neanderthals and produce the next army of soldiers.
She got off lightly.

trisher Fri 25-Aug-17 22:32:51

Yes I think there is a common idea that women in all Muslim countries are kept as men's slaves and have no education or profession. I have met Muslim women who were studying in UK universities as post graduates and for PhDs. We tend to think as Islam as a single faith with universal ideas when in fact there are many different versions.
Her version of Islam was different to the horrors she found.

Iam64 Fri 25-Aug-17 20:05:16

trisher - I like the way you set out your analysis, especially of the character of the female doctor. She said at one point that she'd been told she could practice medicine once she arrived. That was her first shock wasn't it, that she had been given information that turned out to not be entirely true.

trisher Fri 25-Aug-17 15:37:58

I thought it was actually a real deterrent to anyone thinking of going to join Isis. The female doctor was a brilliant portrayal of the contradictions women have when raised in western countries with strong Islamic beliefs. She had a vision of a state where she could raise her son in safety, practise medicine and live a religious lifestyle. It was idealistic but not stupid. Her son was only 10 by the way.
Women are allowed to practice medicine, lecture and study in many Islamic countries
I thought the women who enforced the rules and trained the new arrivals were very well portrayed. I have heard that the women in Iran were more violent than the men when enforcing the dress regulations.

Ilovecheese Fri 25-Aug-17 15:08:44

What's that about eating dessert?

grannyticktock Fri 25-Aug-17 14:02:53

I think the doctor had heard how badly they needed doctors put there, and hadn't reckoned with the incompatibility between their narrow doctrines and good medical practice. She had assumed they would welcome her and allow her to bend the rules.

As for taking a child - well, it's horrendous, but people do. I suppose if you really believe it's a worthwhile cause, you would see no reason not to bring your child up in the new "state". Not until you'd tried it, anyway .....

gillybob Fri 25-Aug-17 14:01:08

I think the doctor went because she (in her mind) thought that she could make a difference and put her medical skills to good use . If allowed back into U.K. Society I think she would be quite dangerous.

Anya Fri 25-Aug-17 13:55:16

Many people, including Muslims, misunderstand Sharia.

There is no direct reference to Muslim women being or not being professional in the Quran, similar to how there is no direct reference to Muslim women eating dessert.

If it has not been forbidden, it is not forbidden. If it is not forbidden, it is allowed.

Islam is not just the Quran, but also the Sunnah. And an undisputed element of the Sunnah is that Muhammad's first and most beloved wife Khadijah was a wealthy, successful, independent, well-reknowned businesswoman in Makkah. She was actually Muhammad (saw)'s boss, which is how they got acquainted in the first place. After they were married, she continued her business, and after Muhammad became a Prophet, she used her profession to finance the cause of Islam. She was, and the Prophet repeatedly tells us this, one of the ideal Muslim women of all time.

The Sharia Law as interpreted by ignorant fanatics such as Daesh bears no resemblance to reality. Yes, there are aspects of Sharia that are anathema to us, but this is not one of them.

I had this explained to me by a Muslim friend who runs her own business.

Iam64 Fri 25-Aug-17 13:51:33

I read the DM article on Monday morning, which suggested this drama would act as recruitment propaganda for Isis. I watched the drama, which convinced me that the DM article was wrong.
It was an excellent drama which didn't shirk from showing the extreme violence, control, brutality and oppression practiced by the 'leaders' of Daesh. It did explain Ilovecheese. The people who went believed they were pioneers, helping to build the first Islamic State. The female doctor hoped to contribute and to bring up her son in an environment where he wouldn't be abused or bullied because of his race or religion as so many young people are in Europe and the USA. Once reality was unavoidable her intelligence helped her to get out. Her reluctance to pass information from her community to the Border Force in payment for not getting a prison sentence showed she'd not fully accepted how dangerous Daesh/jihadi's are.

Ilovecheese Fri 25-Aug-17 13:23:21

But did it explain though? Why did the doctor go, she must have known that having a career was incompatible with sharia.
I thought she was the only one that seemed intelligent, and that was only because we knew she was a doctor.
The other three didn't seem intelligent at all.

Anya Fri 25-Aug-17 13:02:25

An excellent series. Goes a long way to explaining how seemingly intelligent individuals can be lured in. I'm absolutely certain any young person who watched this would have their eyes opened.

Sar53 Fri 25-Aug-17 12:56:12

I finished watching the series yesterday afternoon. I thought it was an excellent piece of drama. I'm not sure how any young person, especially female, could want to join a group that treated them in that way. Covered from head to toe in black, totally dominated by the men, absolutely no freedom of thought or deed. The men are so brainwashed and the violence was horrendous.
How could an educated doctor even think of taking her young son into such a dreadful life. I think she deserved all that was coming to her.

gillybob Fri 25-Aug-17 10:23:59

I think Deep down the son probably agreed with everything his dad was saying to him Ilovecheese but being watched carefully he had to say what "they" needed to hear. His life hung in the balance.

I admit to having to hide behind a cushion every now and again.

Ilovecheese Fri 25-Aug-17 10:18:51

The doctor was really arrogant, she seemed to think that the rules would bend as soon as they realised who she was. Pity the foster family that has to de radicalise the little boy.
The other 3 just looked like idiots. Best character in it was the Dad who argued with his deluded idiot son.

whitewave Fri 25-Aug-17 08:45:46

An excellent piece of drama. If it encourages the sort of thought provoked reaction as in some of the threads that's all to the good.

Atqui Fri 25-Aug-17 08:43:45

granny tick tock, I agree that anyone watching the entire drama would not be encouraged to go out there,mInwas just worried that some people may only have watched the * first* part, which gave a different perspective.

f77ms Fri 25-Aug-17 08:07:48

I thought it was very good although I did fast forward through the really violent bits . I found it hard to believe that a Dr would take her 11 year old child into Syria though .
I think it will bring the stark and horrifying reality of life under Isis to any misguided person thinking of going .

Hard to believe what some people will do in the name of religion to their fellow man !

gillybob Fri 25-Aug-17 08:03:20

I agree with grannyticktock and travelsafar out of all the characters I really disliked the doctor (woman) the most. An intelligent doctor for goodness sake, she dragged her young son from the safe environment of London to Syria. What did she expect? The woman was an idiot. I am glad she made it back for her sons sake but wouldn't trust her personally one little bit.

I am wondering if a second series might be on the cards.

travelsafar Fri 25-Aug-17 07:51:03

well said grannyticktock . I was so glad that the little boy was taken into care as his mother, although a doctor who realised she had made a wrong move, was not in position to give him a safe upbringing even when back in Great Britain. It was just so sad and the characters where so deluded about what they were going to achieve.

grannyticktock Thu 24-Aug-17 20:59:48

I found it totally gripping, and a brave, honest piece of drama (and found it difficult to get to sleep after the final episode). I don't think anyone who has watched all of it could possibly feel encouraged to join or sympathise with ISIS; none of the main characters achieved glory or fulfilment, unless you count being killed or widowed. It seemed clear to me that none of the recruits was prepared for the brutality they encountered, and they faced a choice of either going along with it or facing horrendous punishment or beheading.

It was fascinating and informative to hear how the leaders justified their actions and attempted to convince or coerce the new recruits. Unless we begin to listen to their repulsive and deluded views, we can't begin to know how to stop this flow of young Jihadis to Syria.

Atqui Tue 22-Aug-17 10:59:25

I believe further episodes will show more harsh reality and disillusionment , but my worry is that young impressionable sympathisers , who only watch the first episode , will be encouraged to join them, as for the young men it was portrayed as a exciting .

Anya Tue 22-Aug-17 06:56:41

Thought it was amazing. Can't wait to see tonight's episode.

kittylester Tue 22-Aug-17 06:53:10

Dh watched it but I read my book as I found it unsettling.

merlotgran Mon 21-Aug-17 23:37:57

I have no desire to watch it.