A very English Scandal

paddyann Mrs May supposedly "lost" ALL the files with details of peadophiles who work IN Westminster and past members of parliament

So, according to you, known paedophiles had files detailing their activities, and those people continued to work in Westminster.

You are saying Mrs May had a list of kiddy fiddlers, went through the filing cabinets looking for files marked 'paedophile', and allowed them to carry on working.

As if..

That is a yet ANOTHER very serious and libellous anti-Conservative accusation from you Paddyann.

I see you use 'supposedly' before your outrageous slur.

Anyone of us know of paedophiles who might work amongst us? Nope, thought not. However, they will be known to your bosses and there will be files of their vile activities kept with your HR department, according to Paddyann

Why don't you inform the police of her 'supposed' cover up?

We all know there is an old boys network - obvious in the Thorpe drama - that still exists and people get away with heinous crimes, but your suggestion that Westminster abounds with known paedophiles who've had their records deliberately destroyed is a complete fabrication. I cannot imagine one serving politician - and some have proved themselves to be very dodgy - who would cover for a paedophile.

"However the prejudice that members of the lower orders may be raped or otherwise oppresssed is wrong , as I'm sure most of us agree."

I'd imagine most of the 'upper orders' might too. People born into wealth aren't necessarily without a moral compass. There are many at - street level - for want of a better phrase, who are completely and entirely amoral.

Even today there are users from all walks of life who are careless with the feelings of others.

I agree with M0nica that had Scott not been besotted with Thorpe - he said he 'loved him' long after their affair had finished - JT would not have been hounded or have had to think about ridding himself of a pest always about to out him. His wanting to kill the thorn in his side was not a good idea - and Thorpe WAS very cavalier about wanting him dead.

I must read more about the case. Reginald Maudling's name popped up in the last episode. These politicians are a blast from the foggy past of my youth. I had no idea he was connected with the cover-up.

If Preston’s book is correct about the initial brutality, why did Scott stay? Was it because he had nowhere to go? He is portrayed at times as being rather naive and simple yet he stole the letters from his former boss and gave them to Jeremy before the affair started, which suggests some deviousness. I don’t think we hav3 the full picture of his character.

Exactly Merlot.

I saw it as well, Welshwife. Tom Mangold must feel vindicated seeing as he was told to destroy all evidence (VHS tape) of his interview with Scott.

Good for him for keeping it.

I saw a report on Breakfast TV and Tom Mangold was being interviewed. Seems he kept a copy of the programme he made at the time which was never shown. I think this is the basis of the programme on Sunday. Seems they now think the man hired to kill Norman Scott is still alive and why the police have reopened the enquiry.

There is an investigative prog BBC Four on Sunday about JT affair, and alleged attempted murder of Scott. It should be an interesting watch, 10pm.

Grannyknot
It was indeed a 'scene' from a dramatization and we do not know the exact truth of it.

That's correct Lazigirl.
And still living in Devon I believe.

MawBroon copied:

^Greer, a leading feminist and author of The Female Eunuch, suggested that most rape should not be seen as a “spectacularly violent crime” but as “lazy, careless and insensitive”. She said “most rapes don’t involve any injury whatsoever,” and conflated rape with “bad sex … where there is no communication, no tenderness”
The Guardian^

This is so important. Greer is not saying that bad sex is okay but that it should not be conflated with sexual violence.What you copied earlier, MawBroon, from that book, was not bad sex it was horrific and horrifying violence. If that account was true the rapist deserved severe punishment far more than the perpetrator of bad sex.

I guess Scott can read all these posts because unlike JT I believe he is still alive.

At no point in this dramatisation has there been an suggestion that Thorpe used any coercion, physical or mental

That, M0nica is why I referred to the dramatisation as sanitised
“Seduced”always sounds so much better than “bu**ered” or “raped” doesn’t it?
And for those who claim “‘‘twas ever thus” all I would say is that we should bl***y well have moved on from the Dark Ages.

Going into someone's bedroom in surroundings unfamiliar to them, in your mother's house (and therefore "your territory"), slamming down a bottle of Vaseline on the bedside table and putting a towel on the bed "just in case"; when the other party is in floods of tears, doesn't involve some coercion? "And I'm going to kiss you now"... I thought JT was very intimidating in that scene.

Of course Thorpe seduced Scott, but if he hadn't in his turn been seduced by his physical charms, he wouldn't have done so.

Scott was in independent person when he met Thorpe. If he had been straight he would have ignored Thorpe and his blandishments and he was completely free to do that even if he was gay. At no point in this dramatisation has there been an suggestion that Thorpe used any coercion, physical or mental.

I’m not condoning taking advantage of others bluebelle. Of course it is despicable behaviour. He was a callous and devious man. Apart from exploiting Scott he also exploited less powerful people by involving them in the murder attempt. Only luck prevented Scott’s death here.
The title of the play trivialises this whole episode.

....that’s alright then, it’s always happened, so why worry

Blimey I thought we d move on in becoming a tad more civilised in 2021 I m astounded at those last two posts

well said mostlyharmless this kind of behaviour has gone on since time began unfortunately.

Well the powerful have taken advantage of the less powerful for sex throughout history.

Slaves exploited by their masters, Lords of the Manor expecting sexual favours from the minions or from the minions’ daughters/wives , schoolchildren exploited by priests, popstars exploiting their groupies, physically stronger men exploiting women, rent boys used by richer men, Artists expecting favours from their models, Harvey Weinstein using the casting couch.

‘Twas always thus.
Shouldn’t happen of course, but it did and still does.

I cannot see how anyone can condone a powerful well off man raping a young rather niave young man To say it was just a matter of Scott being in love with Thorpe and Thorpe not caring a jot is simplifying it enormously
Thorpe took advantage to satisfy his own needs he couldn’t care less about Scott and was even contemplating murdering him to cover up his own misdeeds and keep him quiet to save his career, that’s is just not normal behaviour of a decent person
Who in their lifetime considers murder no matter what anyone does to you ?

Greer, a leading feminist and author of The Female Eunuch, suggested that most rape should not be seen as a “spectacularly violent crime” but as “lazy, careless and insensitive”. She said “most rapes don’t involve any injury whatsoever,” and conflated rape with “bad sex … where there is no communication, no tenderness”
The Guardian

I thought Germaine Greer had said rape is just bad sex?

MawBroon wrote:

I think only Germaine Greer would agree that a rape victim had a choice of refusing all the way during the process

Gremaine Greer claims that there is a difference between bad sex and rape.
What you describe, MawBroon, is violent bullying. I am sure that Germaine Greer would condemn violent bullying such as your copy describes.

If you read the book by John Preston he recounts/alleges that JT produced some Vaseline and bu**erd Scott until he bled. Scott claimed he was in agony but unable to cry out because JT’s mother Ursula was in the next room, this adding an extra frisson to JT’s pleasure.
A thoroughly disgusting scene, very much sanitised for TV as was, I feel, the whole sorry story.
I think only Germaine Greer would agree that a rape victim had a choice of refusing all the way during the process

I wish I could edit. I mean of course "attracted to and fascinated by Jeremy Thorpe".

MOnica wrote:

I am not sure a member of the lower orders was raped or otherwise oppressed. Scott had a choice of refusing all the way through the process.

If it's true that Scott was attracted to and fascinated by Scott he was at least seduced by a superior in power and strength of personality.

My point is that someone with superior powers has a moral responsibility for a certain amount of care for less powerful people. If JT did nothing but care for Scott's welfare as he claimed then JT was positively behaving very well indeed. There is a principle involved that exploitation of the less powerful is never good. Sex is always potentially exploitative, which is why there are moral guidelines.

That's why e.g. doctors never should have unmarried sex with patients, teachers with students, or prison guards with prisoners.