A very English Scandal

1961 was only just the 60s Annie the "Summer of Love" wasn't until '68
Still no comment about an abusive childhood and a 17 year old. Just overlook them. I'm sure the men involved did.

Girls sleeping around in the sixties wasn’t common ? You jest

I have not excused the men, Profumo was in the wrong he was married, Keeler was wrong to have a fling with a married man, only difference is she was making a living, supose they both got what they wanted, he sexual excitement she money for her bank account.

My own opinion on these sex parties is all who take part, male and female have low morals.

Thank goodness some girls do choose to sleep around through choice, although it wasn't common in 1961 and you never comment on Keeler's sad history or the fact that Rice Davies was only 17 and therefore a child by today's standards, let alone 1961 when the age of majority was 21.

Profumo was more than an adulterer Annie but interesting that you continue to blame the girls and excuse the men. It's a bit Victorian you know.

I disagree, both Keeler and Rice Davies were not imprisoned in Ward’s house and driven to sex parties, they chose these life styles . Nothing to do with my morals, all I am saying is these girls chose their life styles and were not victims, comparing them with the children in Rotherham was so wrong, those girls were used and abused .

You just will not accept or admit that many girls who sleep around do so from choice.

As a married man Profumo was an adulterer, Ward was not. You are only concerned with men of wealth, I see no difference in a MP or a milkman if married having affairs or flings .

Fact, some girls choose to use their bodies as a means to make a living.

Wasn’t JC the one who was accused of being friends with prostitutes by the Pharisees?

Ah. That’s the rub. You see sex work as immoral. A term that shows a lack of respect for those who do a job that you disapprove of and despise because it doesn’t fit in with your idea of morality.

Easier to think that those who do that job must be victims, coerced, have something wrong in their make up than to question your own notions of morality and your attitudes towards others.

Is it also their choice to become dependent on alcohol and substances?

It wasn't just an "affair" Annie it was a lifestyle that involved passing girls around like dolls. I don't know what my milkman or my postman do in their private lives, but then they aren't part of the government, making laws and presenting themselves as impeccable. It is nothing to do with wealth and everything to do with power and deception. I had considered you had very high morals after all your posts about JC (I got him in first this time me!!!) it seems that they are not only flexible but actually non-existant. Who would have known?

trisher, your problem is with wealthy men, no difference in a man in power having an affair to a milkman having an affair , no difference in the girl having an affair with a wealthy man to the girl having an affair with the milkman.

You don’t mention Mandy Rice Davies, Keeler’s close friend, this ‘victim’ went on to open a nightclub ‘Mandy’s Candies,

Both girls were mistresses of Rachman , coincidence their string of affairs were with wealthy men . These girls knew what they wanted , they chose to live their lives as mistresses and to have flings at the same time. Their choice.

I used to live close to a what used to be called a "red light" district. I met plenty of women who were sex workers. Some felt they had no other choice as they had no education or skills, others chose to do the work as they saw it as a way of being able to support themselves and working hours which fitted around their life. They mostly worked for pimps as by doing so offered a degree of safety. To say that they were all victims is, from my experience, untrue. As I said for some it was a conscious choice, others felt it was the only choice they had.

Annie Scott has given a graphic account of how he was pressured into sex with Thorpe. Keeler was more circumspect, (possibly because she had children) but neither you nor I know what sort of sex was involved, or how well she was at the time. However a history of abuse, a dead baby and the photographer's story indicate that she was certainly dominated and commanded by men. However forget Keeler how do you feel about men in power who pretend to be pillars of the establishment whilst living secret dissolute lives. Or is that all right because it is a personal choice?

“If a girl chooses to be a hostess in a night club or a sex worker she is a victim of men” Said ironically and perhaps should have had a question mark.

Reply “That’s right ab. You got it at last”

How is that not saying “all”

Would it help if we referred to women rather than girls. We are adults at 18.

How did Keeler suffer from a three week fling with Profumo?

The only people who have stated "all girls are victims" are the people who are denying this. Isn't it rather strange to even try to combat an argument by posting things that have never been said? Or is it in fact just a way of distracting attention from an argument that you have lost. That Keeler, Rice Davies and Scott all suffered at the hands of more powerful men at a time when they were young and impressionable. That men like Jeremy Thorpe and Profumo presented an image of respectability and conformity to the public whilst indulging in another lifestyle altogether. Whichever way you look at it the men of power involved don't come out of this well. And you do wonder how much subterfuge still takes place.

I so agree Eglantine, this- all girls are victims claim is insulting to many girls.

It’s purely speculation that most sex workers are likely to have been abused, influenced by your involvement with those who had been abused.

But it is abusive to insinuate that most sex workers must have been abused. Or like a previous poster all sex workers.

Is there any other group of workers that has to take this form of verbal abuse for simply being successful and happy in their job. Or where the problems of some workers are used to smear a whole group?

So back in those days parents who gave permission for their daughters to marry under age 21 were we’re giving permission for their daughters to be sexually abused

I'm sure you all understand that at 19 back in those days CK was still regarded as a child.The age of majority was 21 .There are NO child sex workers ,only abused children.If a 12 or 13 year old is making a "living" out of sex its because someone treated them appallinly to begin with.The she wanted it arguement ..or in cases like JT he enjoyed it doesn't ring true.IF the book is to be believed then Norman Scott wasn't "made love to" he was assaulted until he bled. All because he was looking for help and a roof over his head.Of course his dependency and obsession with JT will have stemmed from that too,nobody ever heard of Stockholm syndrom?

Jane10, you might have considered an older experienced man offering an exciting glamorous lifestyle. I wouldn't and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Thanks to Elothan for her summary of the issues that contribute to the way some boys and girls drift or are driven into sex work. I recognise that my involvement with that group was, as you say, largely with people who were in difficulty. I did meet sex workers who were from 'privileged' families but none of them had escaped some form of abuse. I am not suggesting all sex workers have abuse in their backgrounds. I suspect its likely most of them do.

At 19 I was going out with a man 12 yrs older than me, in 1965 some thought this 'not quite right'.
He was perceived as 'glamorous' as he had a lovely old sailing boat and raced at Brands Hatch.
Looking back I know I got more out of that 4yr relationship than he did. It changed my life completely. That life was a south London girl, living in a high rise flat, disfunctional family, no education from 14.
Without that introduction into a completely different world, would I be in the position I am now: no way.

Keeler had a three week affair with Profumo, whilst living with another man and having an affair with the Russian. This - all 19 year old girls are naive victims is rubbish and comparing Keeler with the children in Rotherham was so wrong.

Eloethan wrote:

On the Keeler/Profumo issue, Christine Keeler was only 19 years old and was from a very different background from John Profumo who attended Harrow and Oxford and was a member of the Bullingdon Club. He had an important political position and must have been around 40 years of age when he started a sexual relationship with Keeler. Who should have known better - she or an experienced man twice her age?

That's a very important ethic;
moral responsibility is proportionate to power. I like to apply that ethic across the board, including the Jeremy Thorpe affair.

Sex workers consider the term “prostitute” to be offensive in regard to the job they have chosen.

Those who “work” with sex workers are, of course, working with those who are in need of help, so they will only see one section of those involved in the sex industry. They will have very little, if any, contact with those who are successful and happy in what they do. So their experience and perception is likely to be very skewed and not representative of sex workers as a whole.

Children who have been sexually abused are at risk of forming damaging sexual relationships in later years, in marriage and outside marriage, but this observation only applies to the subject of sex work if you see this as damaging and distorted.