A very English Scandal

Maryeliza’s reply to Annie illustrates perfectly the point I was making about the attitudes of some to sex workers.

For reasons of their own they find it impossible to believe that sex work could be a choice made freely. The same choice that other people make when they have a talent; when using that talent gives them pleasure and satisfaction in being able to do something well to the benefit of others. To be able to use that talent to make a good living is a bonus.

Now if I was referring to hairdressing or care giving or nursing nobody would say that everyone who does any of those jobs has been coerced or exploited.

Those who assume that all sex workers have somehow been forced or manipulated into their job only reveal the contemptuous attitude they have towards those whose choices are different to their own.

And perhaps for them the impossibility of believing that some people do not find sex repugnant!

Because you chose not to Jalima just as some girls choose to. It is a choice .

You’ve just described a scenario of exploitation ab.
I moved to London in the 1960s but didn't work as a topless hostess

that not only was Shakespeare less than historically accurate
well I never

It was due to originally be aired just after the verdict - but when he was acquitted the BBC pulled the programme and said all copies should be destroyed but Tom Mangold managed to keep a tape and then transfer it to a DVD which survived his dog trying to eat it!
Yes, Welshwife, that was the Tom Mangold documentary which, again, is of its time, but not the recent drama which, of course, has had no input from Jeremy Thorpe himself.

^ How can ‘we’ be poorer for the loss of the upper class hypocrite JT? ^
Because he was a brilliant politician, revived the Liberal Party, an advocate for human rights and all of this (which may not have happened 20 years later) resulted in a great loss to British politics and Liberalism.

Perhaps you are too young to remember maryeliza. I was a supporter of Jeremy Thorpe and I well remember the feeling of being 'let down' and, in fact, quite devasted, when all this came to light.

Girls who work in night clubs are no different to girls who work in supermarkets (although they may be paid better!)
Because they are all girls does not mean they all have the same personalities. And we are also, to some extent, a product of our upbringing.

Women are not an homogenous mass. Thank goodness!

Yes that’s right ab you've got it at last

So you do equate topless night club hostesses with prostitutes Annie. What about the Windmill girls who appeared completely nude were they?

Well said Eglantine, a girl can choose to go to university, join the armed forces, join the police force, be an apprentice bricklayer , a cleaner, but if a girl chooses to be a topless nightclub hostess or a sex worker she is a victim of men.

Has anyone said "all sex workers are poor and working class"? We were discussing 2 young women. Keeler was brought up by her mother and abused by her mother's lover. Rice Davies was a policeman's daughter. Both were very young when they became involved with powerful people.

No I don't niggly so do enlighten me.
Girls who work in night clubs are no different to girls who work in supermarkets (although they may be paid better!)

A determination to see all sex workers as vulnerable victims is, at best, patronising and at worse reveals a deep rooted prejudice where such workers can only be “acceptable” to some people if the choice to be a sex worker can be viewed as having been forced upon them in some way.

This stance is deeply offensive to those who see themselves as workers, just like any other worker in any other field and has long been a hindrance in ensuring that sexworkers enjoy the same rights and legal protections as other workers.

Those who are determined to portray all sex workers as victims or “poor, working class” might benefit from exploring their own need to denigrate these service providers.

nn the life expectancy figure you quote is the figure at birth. If you survived childhood ( which about 25% didn’t) then your life expectancy was into your 50s/60s . So NG could have expected another 20 years maybe .

It was old in 1687 when life expectancy was 40! I think you understand perfectly well what annie meant!!!

So if you work in a nightclub you are fair game for anyone Annie? But a supermarket is OK because you obviously aren't 'asking for it'. I believe actresses were once considered to be the same as prostitutes. I did think we had moved on from there.

She was only 37 when she died from syphilis, probably passed on to her by Charles. So hardly old.

I'm not arguing. It's all a matter of differing life experiences. As I said I'm not giving out real people's names on a public forum but they most certainly existed then and continue to do so now. Look beyond your prejudices and you may be surprised at what you find.
Nell Gwynn became well known and wealthy due to her charms. If she died penniless that was due to financial mismanagement in her old age.

I never said abused children were not victims, I am speaking of girls who choose jobs in nightclubs, choose to become nightclub hostesses, choose to have affairs. They are all mentally ill, on drugs, suffering alcohol abuse ?

Not all girls are victims not all men are sexual predators.

Some girls choose being topless nightclub hostesses to working in supermarkets, restaurants etc.

Iam, I didn’t read the children in Rotherham were 19 years of age

That was to Jane btw

Oh come on - I think you are losing the argument if you use NG to prove a point?

Hang on Nell Gwynn to my knowledge never "fleeced" anyone. She was a well known and succesful comedy actress who became one of Charles11 mistresses. She bore him children, but died with debts. So who did she fleece? She is alleged to have referred to herself as a 'whore' on at least 2 occassions. One when her coach was surrounded and attacked by a crowd who thought she was Charles's French catholic mistress. She allegedly put her head out the window and replied to their shouts "No! I am the Protestant whore"

It’s pointless to keep arguing we will all have different viewpoints on this The rich and powerful certainly have more opportunity and generally more confidence and friends in the right place, likewise some young (and pretty) can take advantage of older people, however because of opportunity and connections it will be much more common in the former scenario
However abuse is abuse is abuse and not really worth arguing about all and varied permutations

We'll no doubt never find consensus on this. I know a couple of young women who were at school with my children. Of the large group, the rest of the girls went on to work or higher education. These two by 17 were working as escorts. Whether they 'chose' this or whether their lack of self esteem, confidence and parental guidance allowed them to make awful choices in their mid teens, depends on your view of life. I suppose my socialist rant gene takes over