A very English Scandal

Very cryptic Jane ?

I'm not giving out names on such a public forum but I certainly could. Some are now quite respectable middle aged people who have cashed in their youthful looks and charms while they still had them.
However, certain historical figures are known about eg Nell Gwynn.

AB what century are you living in? The days were young women were viewed as you view them belong to the Victorian Era or All Men Clubs.

Sexual harassment, grooming, drugs, alcohol abuse, mental health ...all these issues have moved forward, thank goodness, and are viewed very differently today than in less understanding times.

I didn't see trisher's comments as a 'socialist rant' either maryeliza54. I agreed with her post.

Jane10, yes please can we have evidence to justify your comment that attractive young men and women of poor backgrounds have always used their allure to attract and fleece wealthy men.

Annie, the young women in the Rochdale, Oxford, Rotherham were all said to be willing participants in abusive sexual experience. They were said to be making lifestyle choices. Again, abuse of power by men in order to 'enjoy' sex with no regard for their sexual partner.

Any examples Jane10 or is that just one of those well known 'facts' which is used to justify privilege and is in fact an urban myth.

Yes it can be, of course it can. Willing is not a straightforward word

Is sex between two willing participants abuse ?

Attractive young men and women of poor we backgrounds have always used their allure to attract older rich men (and women) and fleece them. That's abuse too of course.

Of course there is abuse at all levels of society Day6 but if you can post evidence of one instance where a poor, young working class person has abused a rich, powerful person of any sex I will willingly withdraw my remark. They don't, they can't. Abuse necessarily involves the misuse of power whatever level it takes place at, and young poor, vulnerable working class people have no power. They are at the bottom of the abusing scale.
And the abusers in these cases (as in many others) were rich, powerful and influential.

Why the ‘socialist rant’ Day6 ? Trisher and I don’t agree on some things but I always respect her posts and her tenacity in arguing her corner.

Trisher -^Vulnerable and young working class people used and abused by members of the ruling class^

Ye Gods. Not surprised this becomes another socialist rant from Trisher.

It's not a class or wealth issue - there is so much more to this tale..

In life and always there have been weak and strong people. There have been rich and poor people. There have been abusers and victims.

It still happens and not all abusers are middle class and wealthy. Ask those used as sex slaves, those working as prostitutes, those living in fear of a bully. I could go on. The abusers come from all walks of life. Always have and always will. Complete pond life types can also find victims, or people who will not stand up to them, and assert their power and influence.

It's not about wealth and power in every case, much as you'd like it to be so you can make a political point.

Thorpe and Cook's story is interesting because of Thorpe's job, his need for secrecy and because homosexual relations ships were illegal at the time. Thorpe had a privileged background but many abusers do not.

Bullying, abusing and using and casting aside are not character traits peculiar to only the wealthy.

I loved the bit in the drama where Jeremy Thorpe got a cushion and the other three men didn't. That can't be true can it?

Why especially powerful men ? Seems a mans wealth is at the root of this not his morals

I despise any man especially powerful ones who have sex with much younger women and expecially if they are in their teens regardless of the motivation of the women ( and how can we judge that anyway).

Jane, The girls at that time had a far better chance of employment , many chose the life of working locally, dating local boys and marrying .

Some girls decided this was not the life they wanted and headed for the bright lights.

It was choice and quite possibly upbringing, Keeler had an awful upbringing but this was not caused by the many men she had affairs with when she chose to be a nightclub hostess

Interesting point Anniebach. Times were different then. We don't know what choices these girls had at the time. However, other girls didn't get sucked into that sort of life. It's interesting to consider why not. What were/would have been protective factors?
Personally I suspect they were seduced by the exciting life on offer.

I don’t think anyone is saying that sleeping around (whatever that means) means that such young women are not victims. That’s a whole other discussion but in the context if this thread I think what is being said is that those young women ( and men) were victims.

And what are young people who sleep around but not with powerful men ?

This I just don’t understand , a girl can have sex with many men in her neighbourhood no problem , but a girl who has sex with wealthy men are all victims .

Yes I agree trisher NS was also a victim as are all young people used for sex by the more powerful.

Is Scott not a vctim then? Because he had sex with a wealthy man.

As for ‘asking for it’. Asking for what ? Money ?

They were not victims , I do not see all young girls as victims . Victims because they had sex with men one who was wealthy ?

Young women were more naïve in those days and therefore easily exploited. The glamour of the swinging sixties was just kicking in and their heads would have been easily turned.

Acount of the iconic photograph by the photographer. A real account of continued exploitation. The photo was supposed to be publicity for a film about the affair not made till the '80s
During the session, three rolls of 120 film were shot. The first two rolls had Christine sitting in various positions on the chair and on the floor, dressed in a small leather jerkin. It was at this point that the film producers who were in attendance demanded she strip for some nude photos
Christine was reluctant to do so, but the producers insisted, saying that it was written in her contract. The situation became rather tense and reached an impasse. I suggested that everyone, including my assistant leave the studio. I turned my back to Christine, telling her to disrobe, sit back to front on the chair. She was now nude, fulfilling the conditions of the contract, but was at the same time covered

Good heavens AB do you have to have that spelled out for you? You really think two young vulnerable girls were not being exploited.

I hope you don’t think that other victims were ‘asking for it’?