21 Kids and Counting.

anja I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with me about. If one person has an income over £50000 before tax the child benefit tapers off up to an income of £60000. This family say they still get CB so his income from the Pie business must be £50000 or less - there are lots of ways to make sure that happens as any decent accountant will advise you.

So the government website is incorrect?

Yes I know the rules about child benefit anja as I said at £50,000 it wouldn’t be affected. However, there is the question of the other income - maybe paid to Sue or put in trust for the children. And then the value of things like various goods - I’m sure they’ve got a good accountant. I wonder why he was never charged with statutory rape all those years ago?

Anniebach exactly. I didn't watch this time - as others have said they keep having kids and keep making the same old programmes - but when I did watch in the past some of the older children were complaining about having to look after the younger ones. There is no way that these children are getting the individual time that they need.

My DH and I had a joint income of more than this family but had 2 children, as that was the number we could comfortably afford. Giving children your time is as important as having money. Even with only having 2 when one was demanding this that or the other you could guarantee the other was demanding the opposite and it was hard to make sure they both got the attention they needed. There is no way on earth that this family get the attention they individually need.

I really feel sorry for these children, even if some have left home there are still too many to be cared for properly. The parents may not ever look "flustered or moth eaten" as they don't actually look after the poor kids.

My brother's wife is one of 12 children, and she tells me that although she enjoyed being part of a large family, there were quite a few things she didn't like ;

having no privacy (sharing a bedroom, etc)

not having a birthday party (too many of them for the parents to be able to afford it)

Never having anywhere quiet to be able to sit and read/talk/think.

Not being able to have time with the parents alone.

I feel sorry for all the individual children in those large families.

sparklefizz shades of Victoria Wood.

When their children have partners and all have their own children...it will be impossible to have a family get together!!! Unless they take over a stately home...

I wonder about her pelvic floor after all those childbirths.

I just don't see how the parents can possibly keep up with what is going on in each child's life, check they are doing their homework, etc etc. Maybe that support comes from their siblings and there may be a form of sibling pressure. In theory none of them should be lonely in old age and they should always have help on hand.
Who knows? Only time will tell.

I think they're a great couple and I see nothing wrong in them having wanted all their children. Each one has been as precious as the next one to them. Pity all large families weren't of the same attitude !
What they receive in payments from being sponsored is their business so good luck to them. The family is a happy one and each child helps the other.

I love seeing programmes about them they're so cheery and parents never look flustered or moth-eaten in any way. I just think they're all a delight.

I didn’t see the programme, never heard of the family.

21. Children ? Is it possible to give these children the time they need as individuals

Sue was pregnant at 13. Noel is five years older so wasn't that illegal? Since then she's just about had a baby a year. Noel had a vasectomy after her ninth pregnancy but then had it reversed so they could have more children.

Was that the day he signed Channel 4's contract?

Merlot the article said he earned £50,000 so that would be his tak home pay possibly before tax.

maryeliza either you or your partner has an income of more than £50,000 a year before tax then you’ll have to pay back some (or all) of your Child Benefit in the form of extra Income Tax. Source Government Website.

Sorry about the spelling, fingers playing up today.

I think having that many children is monumnetally selfish. The main cause of global warming, and all pollition is having a world with far too many people in it. The best way to cure these problems is for the population to fall.

Having more than 2 children, except in very narrow circumstances, is the ultimate act of selfishness. Destroying the world fr your first few children by having all the others.

When my husband was researching his family tree, he found that one great grandmother had given birth to 18 children, only 6 survived, not unknown in the 19th century. However, he also found she died of cancer of the womb. I can't help feeling that any woman having that many children would have associated gynaelogical problems as a consequence.

I haven't watched the programme so can't really comment on the individual family, although I imagine that number of children born to one set of parents would be pretty unique in the developed world. The logistics of day to day life for most people would be a complete nightmare. I do remember going to school with a girl who was one of 14, and even the nuns at my convent, given their view on contraception, would make subliminal negative remarks about the size of the family. The three eldest were girls and they descended with a year between them, so I knew all of them. It was an ongoing joke between the sisters and the rest of us that they shared the regulation school hat. We were all scrutinized by the teaching staff regularly to see that the full school uniform was being worn and the sisters were regularly pulled over as only one of them would be wearing the school hat at any given time, their stock reply would be "it's so and so's turn today" I was invited to their house once or twice, not that large, upstairs was just a mass of beds and it struck me forcibly how very difficult life must be with that many people crammed into a relatively small space. I was particularly friendly with the eldest sister and as we progressed through our teens she told me that she hated the responsibility of looking after so many younger siblings and also hated the fact that they were all on top of each other and doing anything like homework was very difficult. It had shaped her opinion to such an extent that she said she never wanted to have her own children as a consequence. Of course she may well have changed her mind as she got older. I eventually lost touch with her but do wonder if that was something she stuck to.

I think large families can work perfectly well, if the parents have the wherewithal to manage say 5 or 6, but 21 is really off the wall in this day and age. Their carbon footprint would be mind boggling, I don't think David Attenborough would approve!

I agree luckygirl their own history has impacted on them but time to stop now.
Merlotgran I don't have a problem with their being paid by Channe4 or sponsored. It does seem though they are using the family as a business in its own right. There will always be an audience for these fly on the wall shows.

I watched it as a ‘one off’ documentary when she had about 16 I think So now it’s the same programme but 17 then 18 ??? boring or what, lazy tv What they do is up to them but do we really need a tv programme all about it
being an only child I wanted a big family (maybe 5) had three lost the next one and that was that however I think 21 is ridiculous and how much child rearing is done by the older kids plus will they all go on to have similar size families or will they be put off or have the tv got that ready for the next series
No not for me now why beyond interesting

I have watched this in the past but gave it a miss this time - more of the same I guess.

It is so interesting that they were both adopted children - but I think they have created a blood line now and enough is enough!

The parents are ill.She was groomed from an early age.

Channel 4 goes in for freak shows. All wrapped up as investigative documentaries but 21st century freak shows nevertheless. The mother having 27 children starting when she was 13 has led to a grotesque distortion of family life. It's their business as paddyann says but if they choose to make it public we are entitled to express our opinions on it.

What a lovely post, paddyann

Wow paddyann, angry much? People can have an opinion on a television programme you know. If they had kept their growing family decisions to themselves, no one would be any the wiser and so wouldn't be commenting but, as they've volunteered to appear on national television, the wider public are going to have an opinion on what they see aren't they? Thats what television programmes do. Create discussion?

They doing YOU any harm? If not butt out.The children all look an dsound like well rounded happy individuals to me.I used to live beside a family who had 14 children.They were the happiest kids you could have hoped to meet.Why is it when its something you wouldn't do you think nobody else should do it?

They wanted a big family because they grew up without family..is that difficult to understand? Sure they'll get child benefit for the ones still at school or younger I cant see any reason why that would annoy you.They aren't a burden on the state ..well no more than most of us who got child benefit
.Go moan about some of the REAL problems the UK has ,the folk dying because of government policy ,the ever growing poverty problems etc etc and leave a family who manage fine to get on with it!!

Is that £50,000 profit or turnover?

The programme only showed father and daughter making pies. Does he employ anyone else? He doesn't seem to start work early in the morning unless he puts in a few hours before going home to help get the kids off to school.

I know a fair bit about bakeries in case you're wondering.