The Trial of Christine Keeler.

Bluebelle. Did you watch the two part documentary on Peter Ball which was another example of the same basic issues? It was two hours in total with a mix of real life people talking to camera and re-enactments. The story is no where near so well known ( partly because of the success of the Estsblishment in the cover up and minimising).

The CK story is of course better known and there has been the film. What I’ve found fascinating is the detail that could never come across in a 90 min film. The campaign against SW that led to his suicide, the harassment of CK and MRD. All this happened over several months and in fact was based on pure revenge by the Establishment because in the end they had not been able to prevent some of the truth coming out. The other thing is that it was written and directed by women and its USP is that it tells the story from the women’s point of view

I don’t think it’s great drama but I think it’s a worthy attempt to retell this story as it really was, not sleazy jokes about the sex orgies at Cliveden but how the Judiciary, the Met, No 10, the government and ‘high society’ conspired against the ‘lower orders’.

Well I m still finding it too long and can’t get excited about it and I m not sure why it just seems dreary to me somehow I’m not ‘in it’
My criticism is not anything to do with the real life events But just the dramatisation and I can’t put my finger on the reasons

Aha, now it's clearer thanks to Alexa, you mean Archbishop Carey and Peter Ball. I was simply discussing a TV series about Christine Keeler and have not made any comments about politicians or establishment so no-one should presume they know my opinions.

Thanks for that post Alexa exactly what I’ve been saying on this and the PB thread and bring criticised so for doing. The hypocrisy on GN is breathtaking.

What makes my blood boil is establishment of politicians and police closing ranks to protect estabishment and to hell with the little people who are dispensible, people like Ward, and Christine.

That other story on television , about Bishop Ball and the Church of England has the same theme of establishment closing ranks. In the case of the C of E bishop and Archbishop Carey the losers were the abused teenage boys and their parents.

suziewoozie is that Mariah Carey or Archbishop Carey? I have no idea what you're even talking about! Let it go dear.

I’m obviously in the minority I’m watching it with my daughter ( one episode behind) and we really like it. In 1962 I was 9 but I do remember this happening. I thought the actress playing Christine looked very much like I remember her

Well tell me why you do not think it was utterly unacceptable for Carey to keep evidence from the police then and why it wasn’t totally reprehensible?

suziewoozie, you are putting words right into my mouth! I never said that.

I don’t agree Jane I think it’s strength is in the detail and unlike the film, it shows how long it all went on for and the tactics used to try and protect the powerful. It’s a real life story and editing removes some of the truth and the shock of it all which many of the details demonstrate so clearly.

Dear me Chestnut you really don’t see anything wrong with the power of the establishment as demonstrated by the PB and JP cases?

Dear me suziewoozie you are full of venom on these threads today. Plenty of vitriol coming out for anyone in power!

It still feels ridiculously strung out. Less is more. A real failure of editing.

If you knew the full facts re JPs disgusting, odious, lying behaviour where he used every connection he had to destroy the lives of others ( including contributing to SW’s death) you might feel differently. The parallels with Peter Ball are quite astonishing although the context is different but basically the mix is sex, vulnerable, young disadvantaged people , powerful, well connected men who lie and an establishment that perverts justice and rushes in to save its own neck. And now the parallels with Andrew. But I digress naughty me,it’s all MM’s fault

Last week's episode was beginning to slow down but it has picked up this week and things are beginning to move. Poor old Stephen Ward, can't help feeling sorry for him (unless it's because he's so adorable being played by James Norton!) His life is falling apart.

Past behaviour cannot be changed , but if someone commits
a crime , serves a prison sentence and builds a new life then
surely if they are still ‘odious ‘, rehabilitation didn’t work.

How can past behaviour be changed? If you lied, committed perjury, raped, murdered, stole - those behaviours remain as facts- how could they not? Rehabilitation is about changing your behaviour so you won’t do it again, hopefully it will also make you realise how awful your behaviour was but it doesn’t make it go away. People stay murdered or raped or stolen from or lied to regardless of the future behaviour of the person who committed those acts.

If rehabilitation cannot change past behaviour then the guilty
will continue with their past behaviour.

On any politician who has lied but is defended regardless

Oh annie you only ever criticise Labour politicians as we all know. ?????

I did not say that - I was commenting on the actual behaviour at the time of these two men. Rehabilitation does not change past behaviour - it is supposed to mean future behaviour is changed.

What rubbish to say ‘as they are conservative MP’s they can do no wrong. This thread is not about political parties.

Then you do not believe in rehabilitation.

The behaviour of both JA and JP was reprehensible. The passage of time does not alter that. Whether or not they rehabilitated is not the point. However, as they were Conservative MPs I do realise that they can do no wrong. Setting up your dd to lie for you and risk her whole future is never acceptable regardless of whether you later found god or not or taught a prisoner to read or write.

My point is - can a person ever be allowed to move on and start a new life after serving a prison sentence or are they
‘Odious people for life ‘ ?