Fiona Bruce invites covid anti-vaxxers on QT

So I don't think this vaccine is much good at preventing anything.

Well that thought would be wrong.

If you keep spreading misinformation I will report you, as I said I would do to someone yesterday. (Was that you too? Or was that someone else who doesn't understand statistical analysis and the law of big numbers?)

In my family and extended family of all those who have caught covid exactly half are vaccinated and half unvaccinated.
4 were vaccinated and seriously ill
3 unvaccinated were seriously ill
The rest had it with mild symptoms.
I unvaccinated was a child with very mild symptoms just a temperature for 24hrs
So I don't think this vaccine is much good at preventing anything.
Also 1 person died fully vaccinated
And another has long covid fully vaccinated
Sadly I think the government already knows that it isn't working too.
I remember when the first said it prevents infection. Now they say it doesn't.

Usernametaken

Covid, a disease of the vaccinated:

Go to government website UKHSA vaccine surveillance report, week 51, top of PAGE 34

Quote:

In individuals aged Greater than 30, the rate of a positive COVID-19 test is higher in vaccinated individuals compared to the unvaccinated (table 11.)

Per 100,000 population

Covid, a disease of the older and more vulnerable population.

Go to government website UKHSA vaccine surveillance report, week 51, PAGE 34 and read what it actually says rather than cherry picking statements out of context that suit your preconceptions.

These data should be considered in the context of the vaccination status of the population groups shown in the rest of this report. In the context of very high vaccine coverage in the population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases, hospitalisations and deaths would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated and no vaccine is 100% effective. This is especially true because vaccination has been prioritised in individuals who are more susceptible or more at risk of severe disease. Individuals in risk groups may also be more at risk of hospitalisation or death due to non-COVID-19 causes, and thus may be hospitalised or die with COVID-19 rather than from COVID-19.

"Over 30" is a wide range and includes fit 30 year olds and frail 90 year olds. Older people are more susceptible to Covid and its serious effects. If there were no vaccines the rate of positive COVID-19 tests would be sky high. As it is, it has been reduced many fold from what it would have been had there been no vaccines.

Anyway, if you can't understand it, understand this. Vaccines save lives and don't give you Covid.

fushia ''Here we go again. Just because a lot of people have not taken up the offer of being vaccinated, they are not all ANTI-VAXXERs...yes that's shouting!''

so what are they then?

Strange then that in 2020 so many people were seriously ill with it and died, before any vaccines were available - and strange too that in 2022 such a high proportion of those who are ill enough to be hospitalised and the UNvaccinated.

Covid, a disease of the vaccinated:

Go to government website UKHSA vaccine surveillance report, week 51, top of PAGE 34

Quote:

In individuals aged Greater than 30, the rate of a positive COVID-19 test is higher in vaccinated individuals compared to the unvaccinated (table 11.)

Per 100,000 population

Right On. Fear creates Stress. Fear Mongering the action that deliberately arousing Public Fear is Psychological Warfare. Purpose to influence or Target a Population. There is a Smear Campaign against the Unvaccinated. Government is doing this. Why?

I'm sure we were all tempted at some time.
Particularly those who had relatives who were dying.

How pathetic if they couldn't resist a bloody party.

Rileysnana You ask " If covid was as bad as we have been lead to believe why were they having parties at number 10." Pehaps because after being blamed so often for people who caught CoVid when they couldn't be bothered either to get vaccinated or to stay away from others, they were in need of a spot of relaxation and letting off steam?

OK, not fair on those who were looking after CoVid patients who couldn't relax and let off steam, but I can understand them at number 10 grabbing the chance when it came their way. What annoys me is that someone at number 10 thought it a good idea to organise it and put the temptation in their way.

Oooops...that should have said

'not all UNvaccinated people are stupid...' ??

I could do with a good laugh on a Thursday ! All anti Vax arguements I've heard so far are just that laughable

Everyone has the right to express their opinion. It encourages debate. I am vaxed but I believe each to their own. An anti vaxxer is someone who refuses all vaccines full stop. The people being called anti vaxxers in the media are people declining a vaccine that does not prevent the recipient catching or passing it on. The vaccine has not yet come out of its trial yet. These people don't need vilifying for this. Most people catching covid get over it without medical intervention. If covid was as bad as we have been lead to believe why were they having parties at number 10.

IMO there are some pretty offensive posts on this thread - not everyone unvaccinated is an anti-vaxxer and not all vaccinated people are stupid or ignorant. In fact, some of them are scientists and doctors, probably much more intelligent than many that have been vaccinated.

It's a good thing that people who refuse to be vaccinated against Covid explain their thoughts and the more discussion the better. Not all of them believe in the more outlandish theories like chis in vaccines - some actually have logical and scientific reasons. If there is one thing everyone should know after the last two years it's that not all scientists agree.

Many years ago I smoked - every doctor I saw told me to stop. But I didn't. Until I was ready. I'm not stupid. I have good degrees and a long career in IT management. But I do do stupid things sometimes, and sometimes I am just stubborn and sometimes I am just wrong. I've had all my vaccinations - but I don't think I have the right to force others to do as I do or think as I do.

Sandelf Absolutely not the role of the BBC. We have great freedom of speech in this country but we NEED the BBC to speak for the public good

What is the public good? What the government thinks is good for us, or the freedom to listen to all sides of a debate?
To make my position clear, I’ve had 3 vaccines.
I’ve also just had Covid.
I want to know as much as I can about the virus and the vaccine and I want the BBC to present balanced, high quality information and discussion.

Absolutely not the role of the BBC. We have great freedom of speech in this country but we NEED the BBC to speak for the public good. - It is clear vaccines are saving lives. We are SO fortunate to live in a country where they are available free to all who want. Why do we forget the value of what is free?

Here we go again. Just because a lot of people have not taken up the offer of being vaccinated, they are not all ANTI-VAXXERs...yes that's shouting! They are not all stupid and ignorant either, Sarnia, your post is offensive and narrow minded.
If you think they will get a fair hearing on QT you already hold bias views, because the BBC never has a fair representation of public opinion on any topic.
God help those of us who want to live in a free and fair society, where people have personal choice and are not harangued by those who think they are right. And, people respect one another and their views.

It is supposed to stop severe symptoms but no way of judging this.

You think?

Think again.

Data from NYC. www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page

. I'm amazed and sad at how it has become ok to call people idiots. Don't people remember thalidomide, for example? When did it become wrong to question experts? This article deals with some of the deeper issues, I hope she will be on Question Time. lauradodsworth.substack.com/p/being-humble-in-the-face-of-nature?

Right on GoldenAge.

I think the debate is a good idea.
I'm vaccinated but I think everyone has the right to refuse.
Why
Infections are rising despite 90% vaccinated in my area.
40% in hospital with covid fully vaccinated
Vaccine doesn't stop Infection or infecting others
So if it doesn't stop Infection or transmission Why the need to be vaccinated to work in health care or NHS?
Also some people have had bad reactions to the vaccine. A friend had anaphylaxis. I know it's one in several hundred thousand but if it's you it's 100%. So there is a risk to it as with all medication and vaccines.
It is supposed to stop severe symptoms but no way of judging this. My DD was double vaxed with Pfizer and seriously ill with covid Delta before Xmas. Still has symptoms now so vaccine doesn't work for everyone.
That's my thoughts on it.

You will find that the vaccinated population are not usually the seriously ill with Omicron, but the unvaccinated. They are the ones who end up taking up an intensive care bed and depriving other people who are seriously ill with cancer and other illnesses who desperately need those beds through no fault of their own.

I for one would love to hear a proper discussion as to why some people decline the vaccination. So far I have only heard:
"I don't want unknown poison put into my body" (but most of us have had preventative vaccinations at some point in our lives?)
"It's a worldwide Government conspiracy to microchip us all" (really?)
"I hate needles" (come on)
I wonder if anti-vaxers would decline insulin if they needed it, or betablockers or any other form of medications if they showed signs of various other illnesses?
Or am I missing something? And yes *Pinkhousegirl" I would love to hear the flat earthers and second coming people puting forward their theories. A Louis Theroux type programme would be good - I think he's very neutral.

I think debate should be open to all but QT is becoming entertainment rather than serious discussion.

I don’t think QT is the right place for this discussion because there is not enough time.

As some other posters on here have said a moderated scientific discussion with several contributors would be hopefully be more informative and measured.

Shutting down debate is the first sign of a genuine attempt to destroy democracy. There are lots of people with very good arguments on the whole vaccination issue, and equally lots of eminent statisticians who point out other interpretations of the figures that are propagandised every day on our media but as soon as they make a posting on social media they are 'no platformed' and have to go underground. It worries me that most people after the event speak well of underground movements that have worked to uphold democracies in the past and yet can't see what's in front of them right now. We need to listen to all points of view and form our own opinions rather than forming the opinion after listening to someone else who says 'no you can't listen to that, it will corrupt you'.